Alex/shannon make it happen #1

[bstroud]

With all due respect Bill, I don't see where you can put the cue ball uptable where nothing goes. With that ball hanging at the lower edge of Shannon's pocket, it looks to me like it would act as a nice sideboard, so any of those open balls could be played in/off the sideboard or directly into the mostly open part of the pocket -- either way pretty high percentage for a shooter like Shannon.

You may be correct. The 11 ball is not right in the middle of the pocket.
The only balls that can be made are the 1 and the 9. If you put the cue ball on the rail it is still a very hard shot and sure to leave the 6 ball and give up Shannons' advantage.

Would Shannon risk that? Depends on the condition of the match.

The other options are not too good either.

One thing I have learned from playing with Scott is that when things are really bad, take a scratch in the best possible place and wait.

It doesn't always work but most of the time it does.

Bill S.

 

[backplaying]

If it lays right, I'm inclined to like Bernie's shot. Otherwise I'd hit the 9-ball with low left and kick the 11-ball away. Try to get the CB back into the stack. One has to be careful not to scratch.

Ghost, on those type carom shots, do you use a system (like the 30% rule), or just instinct? In this example I'd think the shot would have to feel like a hanger, because a miss would undoubtedly amount to loss of game...

Doc

Doc, the problem I see with that shot is the way the 11 has to be hit to remove it, the cueball in going to the other side.

 

[onepockethacker]

I like making the 1 ball in the side pocket and stunning the cueball to his side by the diamond below his side pocket. If I dont have the angle to make the 1 ball and do it im just playing the cueball to the diamond and if the 1 ball has to hit the tit or rail so be it. You will have a much better chance to get out of the trap on your next shot.

 

[lll]

Am I supposed to be in trouble here?...sheeit, I ain't in no trouble..this here's a hanger for the Ghost...I'ma just gonna carom the 6 ball in and run out.. rackem up Shannon......:heh

- Ghost

750,000 to $1, that don't happen !...

well sjd you i think you owe the ghost $325,000 since he got half of it right..:lol
alex did make the 6 but didnt run out



p.s. to be a purist you "BIlliarded" the 6..not "caromed" it in this instance.since the cue ball did the work
if the cue ball hit an object ball and that ball goes off another ball thats a carom
(thanks to Mr.3cushion for clearing up that terminology in a pm we had awhile ago)
i hope i got that right........

 

[lll]

he made the 2 and drew back for the 10
made it and left himself here

 

[lll]

what do you do now??
how many go for the bank??
vs
do something to the 11 ball??

 

[petie]

Alex will make the bank and more balls starting with the 13. I would wedge the cue ball under the 11 and nudge it to the side rail.

 

[tylerdurden]

I would shoot the bank if you are almost assured of getting 3 or 4 more after, which isn't the case here. I would get the 11 out in this spot. The balls are just laying too awkward for me to shoot the bank.

 

[SJDinPHX]

well sjd you i think you owe the ghost $325,000 since he got half of it right..:lol
alex did make the 6 but didnt run out
View attachment 8526

View attachment 8527

I ain't payin' him squat !...I did not say the six was not very makeable, it was NOT a gimme however. And if you'll notice, after Alex shot the billiard on the six, and made the deuce, There are exactly ZERO balls on his half of the table..That was the part I did not like about the shot..Also, He needed a little luck, to get where he could even get on the 10 off the duece !

I would certainly like to see how this game progressed, when Alex makes the 10, he almost HAS to go for the bank...With all the balls on Shannon's lower half of the table, Shannon moves well enough to torture him, the entire rest of the game..(which may well be over if he misses the bank, and would surely have been over, had he missed the billiard)

Ghast's always tend to push the panic button too quick ! (right John H. ?)
View attachment 8530

 

[NH Steve]

I ain't payin' him squat !...I did not say the six was not very makeable, it was NOT a gimme however. And if you'll notice, after Alex shot the billiard on the six, and made the deuce, There are exactly ZERO balls on his half of the table..That was the part I did not like about the shot..Also, He needed a little luck, to get where he could even get on the 10 off the duece !

I would certainly like to see how this game progressed, when Alex makes the 10, he almost HAS to go for the bank...With all the balls on Shannon's lower half of the table, Shannon moves well enough to torture him, the entire rest of the game..(which may well be over if he misses the bank, and would surely have been over, had he missed the billiard)

Ghast's always tend to push the panic button too quick !

Dick you sound like a 9-baller here. It was a good simple shot that One Pocket players should get to know, and knowing the shot, Alex knew where his cue ball was going. Furthermore, you are forgetting that Alex was in deep trouble and needed to do something -- with all the balls already on Shannon's side, following his great break. Even if Alex only gets a couple balls -- because he happened to end up too straight on the 10 -- he gets to remove Shannon's hanger and live to battle out the rest of the game.

What would you have done instead in Alex's shoes since you either didn't see or didn't like the carom/billiard?

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick you sound like a 9-baller here. It was a good simple shot that One Pocket players should get to know, and knowing the shot, Alex knew where his cue ball was going. Furthermore, you are forgetting that Alex was in deep trouble and needed to do something -- with all the balls already on Shannon's side, following his great break. Even if Alex only gets a couple balls -- because he happened to end up too straight on the 10 -- he gets to remove Shannon's hanger and live to battle out the rest of the game.

What would you have done instead in Alex's shoes since you either didn't see or didn't like the carom/billiard?

Probably what Hacker, Stroud, Doc, Bernie, the Barber,...or any of the other "nine baller's" would have done !...Billiards or carom's was always a big part of my game...I saw it as soon as lll put it up, and discarded it immediately, for exactly the reasons I gave !

 

[mr3cushion]

Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
Am I supposed to be in trouble here?...sheeit, I ain't in no trouble..this here's a hanger for the Ghost...I'ma just gonna carom the 6 ball in and run out.. rackem up Shannon......

- Ghost

Not a BAD shot, but, you might ONLY have the 2 ball next, that's it!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Gee, the Ghost had the CORRECT shot and the idiot 3c player explained EXACTLY what would happen!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[NH Steve]

Probably what Hacker, Stroud, Doc, Bernie, the Barber,...or any of the other "nine baller's" would have done !...Billiards or carom's was always a big part of my game...I saw it as soon as lll put it up, and discarded it immediately, for exactly the reasons I gave !

The difference is, you did not say what you would do or give a single reason for anything in your first post except to belittle the Ghost. All those other players you call "nine-ballers" made suggestions and did give their reasons. Even when I nudged you to say what you would have done instead, you still did not commit to what you would have shot.

Also, in your second post, I beg to differ -- the carom/billiard was not what moved all the balls to Shannon's side -- that was the result of Shannon's great break, which was why Alex needed to come up with something creative in the first place. And guess what, Alex's shot just happened to be the Ghost's shot. You're just lucky Alex didn't run all the way out!

The thing that is wrong about your first post, and that I would like to see disappear from these WWYD threads completely, is the belittling/mocking without even making a suggestion of your own. I takes a little guts to suggest a shot here, because there are a lot of really seasoned players here on OnePocket.org that know their stuff and they *might* disagree with you. However, anyone can belittle and criticize but all that does is discourage people from participating, while it stirs up trouble.

 

[mr3cushion]

The difference is, you did not say what you would do or give a single reason for anything in your first post except to belittle the Ghost. All those other players you call "nine-ballers" made suggestions and did give their reasons. Even when I nudged you to say what you would have done instead, you still did not commit to what you would have shot.

Also, in your second post, I beg to differ -- the carom/billiard was not what moved all the balls to Shannon's side -- that was the result of Shannon's great break, which was why Alex needed to come up with something creative in the first place. And guess what, Alex's shot just happened to be the Ghost's shot. You're just lucky Alex didn't run all the way out!

The thing that is wrong about your first post, and that I would like to see disappear from these WWYD threads completely, is the belittling/mocking without even making a suggestion of your own. I takes a little guts to suggest a shot here, because there are a lot of really seasoned players here on OnePocket.org that know their stuff and they *might* disagree with you. However, anyone can belittle and criticize but all that does is discourage people from participating, while it stirs up trouble.

Steve; This is EXACTLY why YOU ARE the MAN, the GO TO GUY on this site!

Couldn't of said it better myself. We have to get rid of that, "same old, same old mentality!" :frus

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[tylerdurden]

This billiard comes up all the time, as we all know. I have hardly ever shot it, and I would love for my opponents to shoot it. I agree with Duck exactly in that I saw it too, and I totally forget about that here (which doesn't mean I'm so dense to think he will not shoot it in a wwyd thread).

Here is what I think of billiards like this, and if you tell me I think too much I am fine with that....... the cb is a hair heavier or lighter and you could miss this ball by a quarter diamond to no fault of your own really. There is another reason I don't really like these billiards which has to do with the little bit of spin the cb may pick up on contact. They are just complicated, fickle little shots. I don't like them or shoot them really. If you are in a tough spot, go for it. But look at hacker's shot, which I thought was brilliant btw. I mean that is just some top notch one pocket thinking imo.

 

[NH Steve]

This billiard comes up all the time, as we all know. I have hardly ever shot it, and I would love for my opponents to shoot it. I agree with Duck exactly in that I saw it too, and I totally forget about that here (which doesn't mean I'm so dense to think he will not shoot it in a wwyd thread).

Here is what I think of billiards like this, and if you tell me I think too much I am fine with that....... the cb is a hair heavier or lighter and you could miss this ball by a quarter diamond to no fault of your own really. There is another reason I don't really like these billiards which has to do with the little bit of spin the cb may pick up on contact. They are just complicated, fickle little shots. I don't like them or shoot them really. If you are in a tough spot, go for it. But look at hacker's shot, which I thought was brilliant btw. I mean that is just some top notch one pocket thinking imo.

I have no problems with different opinions like this -- this is what it is all about IMO, and said respectfully.

That particular carom/billiard comes up a lot and can be a game changer. It is worth practicing Tyler. Just over a ball's width apart, and the two balls facing your own pocket -- hitting more or less of the first ball depending on the gap. Inside english on the first ball should eliminate any unwanted spin from being picked up on the cue ball. It's surprisingly high percentage -- quite contrary to SJD's belittling odds. Grady used to call it a "split shot".

 

[mr3cushion]

This billiard comes up all the time, as we all know. I have hardly ever shot it, and I would love for my opponents to shoot it. I agree with Duck exactly in that I saw it too, and I totally forget about that here (which doesn't mean I'm so dense to think he will not shoot it in a wwyd thread).

Here is what I think of billiards like this, and if you tell me I think too much I am fine with that....... the cb is a hair heavier or lighter and you could miss this ball by a quarter diamond to no fault of your own really. There is another reason I don't really like these billiards which has to do with the little bit of spin the cb may pick up on contact. They are just complicated, fickle little shots. I don't like them or shoot them really. If you are in a tough spot, go for it. But look at hacker's shot, which I thought was brilliant btw. I mean that is just some top notch one pocket thinking imo.

Tyler; Since you are a little misinformed about, "carom/billiard" shots in regards to their difficulty, a good read for you would be, "Daly's Billiard Book" by Maurice Daly, first printed 1913.

This book will help you understand the simple and complex formulas for calculating visually these types of shots along with the proper way to figure, "follow and draw" caroms with accuracy.

It can't hurt to learn them!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

 

[wincardona]

Dick you sound like a 9-baller here. It was a good simple shot that One Pocket players should get to know, and knowing the shot, Alex knew where his cue ball was going. Furthermore, you are forgetting that Alex was in deep trouble and needed to do something -- with all the balls already on Shannon's side, following his great break. Even if Alex only gets a couple balls -- because he happened to end up too straight on the 10 -- he gets to remove Shannon's hanger and live to battle out the rest of the game.

What would you have done instead in Alex's shoes since you either didn't see or didn't like the carom/billiard?

You summed it up pretty much the way I would of looked at it and most likely the way Alex viewed it as well. There were just too many obstacles to overcome with any other option (imo) that would have
offered you a better chance of escaping from this situation. By opting to play any other shot you most likely would of ended up in either the same type of a situation or a worse one, or possibly losing the game without ever coming back to the table. By opting to play another option one would have to believe that they would be an underdog to win the game. How much of an underdog depends on the caliber of players that are competing, in this game Alex playing Shannon you're looking at a larger deficit than you would if the players were lesser skilled. With lesser skilled players you can lean more toward playing passively as opposed to aggressively because you figure to have more opportunities to escape from the trap, not so here. In this scenario with Alex and Shannon if I were the shooter and had the fire power of a player like Alex I would shoot the billiard on the 6ball if I were a 3/2 dog or better ...not to make it...figuring that any other option would leave me at at least a 2/1 dog to win the game. This type of a situation is more than getting away from the initial shot and taking a seat, it's more about getting away from the situation..not the shot. There are times playing any game that the player is going to have to gamble, whether you're playing pool..golf...football...or many other games or sport, Alex gambled here and won.... and there was no guarantee that he was going to make the billiard, however, if you're looking for guarantees imo you're not going to win your share of games, particularly when your in a pickle.:sorry Alex gambled and won..Imo it was a good gamble even before he shot the billiard.

Dr. Bill

 

[SJDinPHX]

The difference is, you did not say what you would do or give a single reason for anything in your first post except to belittle the Ghost. All those other players you call "nine-ballers" made suggestions and did give their reasons. Even when I nudged you to say what you would have done instead, you still did not commit to what you would have shot.

Also, in your second post, I beg to differ -- the carom/billiard was not what moved all the balls to Shannon's side -- that was the result of Shannon's great break, which was why Alex needed to come up with something creative in the first place. And guess what, Alex's shot just happened to be the Ghost's shot. You're just lucky Alex didn't run all the way out!

The thing that is wrong about your first post, and that I would like to see disappear from these WWYD threads completely, is the belittling/mocking without even making a suggestion of your own. I takes a little guts to suggest a shot here, because there are a lot of really seasoned players here on OnePocket.org that know their stuff and they *might* disagree with you. However, anyone can belittle and criticize but all that does is discourage people from participating, while it stirs up trouble.

Shannon did lay down a hell of a break..agreed !..But there were still six balls in Alex's quadrant BEFORE he played the billiard..If you insist on criticizing me, criticize me for being facetious..When I named all the other players, I meant that I would probably shoot any one of THEIR shots, before I would play the 6 ball, and I would have !..Just about every available option has been discussed !

I like banking the nine into the top of the stack, fairly firm, and killing the cue ball by the side rail, just below the pocket (ala piggybank) Not an easy shot, given as close as the cue ball is to the rail, but I feel comfortable with it..I'm going to try and get some balls on my side, somehow...If Shannon cuts the 11 in, he has nowhere to go, but into the stack, and hope for a good roll, while he scatters balls in my direction.

I see we have another one, who doesn't care for the billiard, and agrees, it is NOT a gimme !...A thousand pardons for not following "WWYD protocol" I think I'll take your advice Steve, and just stay out of them !..Apparently being critical of ANYBODY'S shot choice, is ver boten !..

PS..Do all the other opinionated guy's know about this ?..I have seen some of them call shot choices STUPID and IDIOTIC in past posts ! (links on demand)

Late Edit..Dr. Bill, you are correct in most of your assumptions and oddsmaking (maybe )..I would point out one thing though...At this point, we still don't know who actually WON the game...Alex did win the first battle !... But I guess we won't know the outcome, (or at least I don't)... 'til lll, or somebody tells us ???

 

[tylerdurden]

Tyler; Since you are a little misinformed about, "carom/billiard" shots in regards to their difficulty, a good read for you would be, "Daly's Billiard Book" by Maurice Daly, first printed 1913.

This book will help you understand the simple and complex formulas for calculating visually these types of shots along with the proper way to figure, "follow and draw" caroms with accuracy.

It can't hurt to learn them!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

My point got lost on you. Let's just stipulate there is a way to calculate billiards. Ok, great, but it has to assume that the two balls are of equal weight (or thereabouts). What if the ob you are dealing with is heavy (or light). I have weighed a set of centennials, and there is some extreme (to my thinking) variation within a set. I feel people think pool equipment is too rosy and perfect sometimes: played in an old poolhall lately? They probably have 15 year old cb's (or older). Do you have any idea how different that cb will react?

Anyway, the billiard is obviously a viable shot here. But, even a guy who is saying he shoots billiards a lot doesn't like this particular one. That doesn't make it wrong though of course.

The one last thing I will say, and this applies to ALL of pool in general. WE WAY WAY TOO OFTEN write games off as if they are over if the layout is good for one guy. Or, another example, "if he makes this bank the game is over". How many times you see where he makes the bank and the game is in fact NOT over. Or the guy with the HORRIBLE lay of balls behind 5 to 1 is back in the game. I just don't like saying "he's in a bad spot, he's a goner if he doesn't do something drastic here". I just don't like it. It could be true of course, and many times it is true, but this being 0 to 0 isn't one of them imo. I have been in these spots many times, as have we all, and if you make a habit of panicking here you have no business in one pocket imo. Not saying the billiard is panicking, but just saying that the game is by no means over if you don't shoot the billiard.

For my money, on this game right here, if I am betting on the guy shooting the billiard I think he is a dog to make it, but to shoot something fairly simple like hacker's force to the middle diamond off the one, or duck's force forward off the nine ball is much better than even money on execution, and I bet there will be a great chance to be right back in the game, or better. Duck's shot could really turn things around here if you look at what could happen there, I mean that could turn out really juicy, and reverse this spot real quick with a little luck.