Alex Pagulayan (1) - Corey Deuel (1) l Derby City Classic 2016 One pocket

gulfportdoc

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Thanks for the link. As a bonus, the Frost/Souquet 9-ball match was watchable on the far table.:)

Corey lost that match due to his poor break shots. He never got the CB above the 1st diamond. That immediately nullified any advantage he would have had on his breaks.

~Doc
 

wincardona

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Cory vs Alex Derby 2016 Round 12

This got posted today, good match.
I watched the first game of this match and to me there is no mystery why Pagulayan is the best one pocket player in the world. His defense is clearly better than anyone's in the game, period. He plays better defense than I have ever seen anyone play. His cue ball is superb and his shot selection is second to none. Cory played excellent as well but just couldn't keep up the pace that Pagulayan was playing. Pagulayan played perfect the first game and never gave Cory a shot to his pocket, unless you consider the 2-11ball off angle combination Cory made as a shot. Great player, no mystery why he has won the one pocket division ..back to back.

Dr. Bill
 
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Frank Almanza

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I watched the first game of this match and to me there is no mystery why Pagulayan is the best one pocket player in the world. His defense is clearly better than anyone's in the game, period. He plays better defense than I have ever seen anyone play. His cue ball is superb and his shot selection is second to none.

Dr. Bill
Never having seen Artie play but having heard about his defensive game what do you think is the main difference between the two. I know that there would be a difference in their offensive games. I'm very familiar with Alex's game and know that not many can run balls like he does, so I'm just talking about defense. Did you ever get a chance to see Artie play when he was at his best? Or maybe the stories I've heard are a bit blown up.
 

wincardona

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Never having seen Artie play but having heard about his defensive game what do you think is the main difference between the two. I know that there would be a difference in their offensive games. I'm very familiar with Alex's game and know that not many can run balls like he does, so I'm just talking about defense. Did you ever get a chance to see Artie play when he was at his best? Or maybe the stories I've heard are a bit blown up.
Frank, to be honest I cannot give you an intelligent answer to your question simply because I didn't know much about the game back then. I believe I know quite a bit about one pocket today and can confidently say that I have never seen anyone play better defense than Pagulayan. If I had to guess I would have to say that Pagulayan was the better defensive player because he strikes balls better than Artie ever did, and for that reason I would have to favor Pagulayan. I'll take a top ball striker that knows the game against any top mover that doesn't strike balls like an upper echelon player. Does that make sense to you? Pagulayan's cue ball is superb, and much of that is attributable to his excellent ball striking.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Frank, to be honest I cannot give you an intelligent answer to your question simply because I didn't know much about the game back then. I believe I know quite a bit about one pocket today and can confidently say that I have never seen anyone play better defense than Pagulayan. If I had to guess I would have to say that Pagulayan was the better defensive player because he strikes balls better than Artie ever did, and for that reason I would have to favor Pagulayan. I'll take a top ball striker that knows the game against any top mover that doesn't strike balls like an upper echelon player. Does that make sense to you? Pagulayan's cue ball is superb, and much of that is attributable to his excellent ball striking.

Dr. Bill
I just finished watching game #2 and what a game it was. Pagulayan only allowed Deuel one shot to his pocket the entire game, but had the perspicacity to move balls from Deuel's side of the table limiting Deuel's ability to run balls when he (Pagulayan)made the cue ball error. Deuel again played beautifully in game #2, he was facing a threatening position that Pagulayan had put him in when he came up with a two shot sequence that put Pagulayan in deep trouble. Deuel pocketed a carom combination from the top of the table but failed to come up with a follow up shot, he then played a power shot into the stack and moved multiple balls to his side while controlling the cue ball beautifully, and turned the game around to where he was the favorite from a seemingly hopeless position. That two shot sequence was the strongest sequence in the match so far, it was beautiful. But once again Pagulayan showed why he's the toughest player in the world to beat as he worked out of trouble and then forced a Deuel error and ran eight balls to put himself in a strong position to win the game needing only one ball after the run.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I just finished watching game #2 and what a game it was. Pagulayan only allowed Deuel one shot to his pocket the entire game, but had the perspicacity to move balls from Deuel's side of the table limiting Deuel's ability to run balls when he (Pagulayan)made the cue ball error. Deuel again played beautifully in game #2, he was facing a threatening position that Pagulayan had put him in when he came up with a two shot sequence that put Pagulayan in deep trouble. Deuel pocketed a carom combination from the top of the table but failed to come up with a follow up shot, he then played a power shot into the stack and moved multiple balls to his side while controlling the cue ball beautifully, and turned the game around to where he was the favorite from a seemingly hopeless position. That two shot sequence was the strongest sequence in the match so far, it was beautiful. But once again Pagulayan showed why he's the toughest player in the world to beat as he worked out of trouble and then forced a Deuel error and ran eight balls to put himself in a strong position to win the game needing only one ball after the run.

Dr. Bill
Well I just finished watching game #3 and once again Pagulayan put on a clinic by constantly applying pressure on Deuel until Deuel made a mistake and Pagulayan ran out. There was a very interesting battle in game three that took place at the foot end of the table bottom rail. Pagulayan had a strong ball position advantage and kept the pressure on Deuel in protecting it. Deuel made some beautiful kicks to survive the position but ended up fouling on both kicks but didn't lose his cue ball, certainly more than a fair trade off as he defended the pressure that Pag was applying. In defense of Deuel he played very unlucky in the match, several times in the match Deuel made a good shot but failed to come up with a follow up shot to continue his run when he deserved a better outcome.

Pagulayan played a near flawless match and showed why he is the best one pocket player in the world as he displayed skills in every facet of the game. His shot selection was beautiful to watch, his defensive play was superb, and his ball running skills are hard to match. Deuel actually played some excellent one pocket but couldn't win a game but Pagulayan has a way of doing that to a man and if you watch him play you will then see that there's no mystery why.

For those who haven't watched this match do yourself a favor and watch it, Pagulayan's mastery of one pocket is a thing of beauty.


Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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I just finished watching game #2 and what a game it was. Pagulayan only allowed Deuel one shot to his pocket the entire game, but had the perspicacity to move balls from Deuel's side of the table limiting Deuel's ability to run balls when he (Pagulayan)made the cue ball error. ...
Excellent word choice, my man, which gives testament to your good breeding.;)

Pag played nearly flawlessly in the match. But I have to say that Corey sold out both break advantages he had by poor execution. I don't think either break left the CB above the first diamond, which left Alex excellent turnaround opportunities that he took good advantage of. Corey, as you say, got a few unlucky rolls, cutting short potential runs.

That's why these races to 3 are tough. There's very little time to overcome mistakes. It's even worse in bank pool.

I'd guess that in a race to 100 Alex would win upwards of 60 games over Corey. But in this instance Corey sure didn't help himself with his break shots.

~Doc
 

LSJohn

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Pagulayan only allowed Deuel one shot to his pocket the entire game, but had the perspicacity to move balls from Deuel's side

Dr. Bill
Perspi-whaaaaat?

Go to your room. :p

(But I have to give you special dispensation because of the excellent analysis of Alex' game... thanks! I guess I'm going to have to let you play with the rest of us word-dweebs now. :D )
 

baby huey

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Dr. Bill, you are absolutely correct. Alex is the superior player in one pocket barring none. What's impressive is his ability to win at the format (race to 3) on slick diamond tables. It's so hard to play so well against a great field like the DCC had this year. I saw the Corey match and he just kept Corey boxed up the entire match. Corey is no slouch himself and he just couldn't shake loose for any offense.
 

wincardona

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Excellent word choice, my man, which gives testament to your good breeding.;)

Pag played nearly flawlessly in the match. But I have to say that Corey sold out both break advantages he had by poor execution. I don't think either break left the CB above the first diamond, which left Alex excellent turnaround opportunities that he took good advantage of. Corey, as you say, got a few unlucky rolls, cutting short potential runs.

That's why these races to 3 are tough. There's very little time to overcome mistakes. It's even worse in bank pool.

I'd guess that in a race to 100 Alex would win upwards of 60 games over Corey. But in this instance Corey sure didn't help himself with his break shots.

~Doc
Doc, thanks for acknowledging my use of a word more than seven syllables, it's not often that I use big words, never was my "strong suit" My forte is describing situations in "layman's terms" which I feel that I do a good job in doing. Occasionally i'll throw in a big word, kinda makes one come across like their smart, or at least more knowledgeable. (Always worked for Grady)

I would tend to agree with you on how poorly Cory broke the balls, it probably would not of changed the outcome, but at least it would of made Alex's job more difficult and interesting. Maybe he (Cory)would of won a game or possibly two, but I seriously doubt it.:sorry

I would like to bring up a few interesting times in the match that I found interesting and hopefully they will help, or at least bring to the attention that these options are viable..to a degree.:D

In game #1 18:40 Alex was in a precarious position and chose an option that got a lot done. I'll try to explain what I believe he was thinking. He chose to pocket the 12ball in the side pocket and go up table then back down table with the cue ball (a little risky) utilizing his superb cue ball control. He improved his position with opening up the 10-12ball cluster and spotted the 12ball to where now it was pocketable in his pocket and blocked several balls that were pocketable in Cory's pocket, plus he protected the 3ball which was positioned on his side of the table.

Game #1 28:13 Alex played a combination bank option that sent both balls toward his pocket, one was off a carom the other off of a combination but the most interesting part of the shot was how he played the cue ball. He drew the cue ball to his side of the table feeling that there was a good possibility that he could position the cue ball behind a ball near his side rail and protect the balls that were ultimately going to end up near his pocket. Yes the shot looked a little risky but if you notice where the balls were positioned limiting Cory with his ability to run balls the shot made a lot more sense. I thought his choice was 100% correct for him, and maybe for many players that strike balls decently.

Game #3 at the 39:02 mark Cory shows his carom reading skills as he chooses to play a carom combination from the top rail, despite having a simple kick at the 13ball that was positioned on Alex's side rail. I thought he would of chosen the simple kick but he chose the carom combination, a testament to his ability and creativity reading the stack. This was the sequence that I was referring to earlier. After pocketing the carom he didn't come up with a follow up shot and that's when he played the power shot banking the 13ball into the stack and controlling the cue ball in back of the 10ball, another beautifully executed shot that seemed to turn the game around from no where. Also in the same game take notice on how Alex runs the balls at the 1:01:18 mark. Particularly pay attention how he plays position off the 2ball to fall on the 1ball and not the 10ball, a mistake that is often made. Playing for the 10ball off the 2ball is a huge mistake because you need to land perfectly on the 10ball to play for the 1ball afterwards. Playing for the 1ball allows you more margin for error with your position play and will give you many more options while running the balls.

Finally in game #3 at the 1:14:30 mark this is where the battle takes place near the bottom rail and pay attention to how Alex controls the position and develops a stronger position with each shot he chooses, and their all simple shots to execute. Cutting off the table is how Alex won this battle and broke Cory down, this type of strategy has proven very productive, with this understanding when given the opportunity to choose options, lean towards choosing the options that Alex chose, providing their available. At the 1:23:30 mark Cory made a big mistake in how he played off the hanging 3ball, he played the cue ball to go up table toward the stack area allowing Alex to bank the 9ball from an angle that allowed him to play position to start his run. His other option (imo) would of been to pocket the 3ball and leave Alex with a stiff angle on the 9ball by just keeping the cue ball in the pocket, at worst he would of left Alex a bank on the 9ball that offered no position potential.

Alex played a beautiful match against a player that exhibited a lot of skills.

Dr. Bill
 
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straightback

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Doc, thanks for acknowledging my use of a word more than seven syllables, it's not often that I use big words, never was my "strong suit" My forte is describing situations in "layman's terms" which I feel that I do a good job in doing. Occasionally i'll throw in a big word, kinda makes one come across like their smart, or at least more knowledgeable. (Always worked for Grady)

I would tend to agree with you on how poorly Cory broke the balls, it probably would not of changed the outcome, but at least it would of made Alex's job more difficult and interesting. Maybe he (Cory)would of won a game or possibly two, but I seriously doubt it.:sorry

I would like to bring up a few interesting times in the match that I found interesting and hopefully they will help, or at least bring to the attention that these options are viable..to a degree.:D

In game #1 18:40 Alex was in a precarious position and chose an option that got a lot done. I'll try to explain what I believe he was thinking. He chose to pocket the 12ball in the side pocket and go up table then back down table with the cue ball (a little risky) utilizing his superb cue ball control. He improved his position with opening up the 10-12ball cluster and spotted the 12ball to where now it was pocketable in his pocket and blocked several balls that were pocketable in Cory's pocket, plus he protected the 3ball which was positioned on his side of the table.

Game #1 28:13 Alex played a combination bank option that sent both balls toward his pocket, one was off a carom the other off of a combination but the most interesting part of the shot was how he played the cue ball. He drew the cue ball to his side of the table feeling that there was a good possibility that he could position the cue ball behind a ball near his side rail and protect the balls that were ultimately going to end up near his pocket. Yes the shot looked a little risky but if you notice where the balls were positioned limiting Cory with his ability to run balls the shot made a lot more sense. I thought his choice was 100% correct for him, and maybe for many players that strike balls decently.

Game #3 at the 39:02 mark Cory shows his carom reading skills as he chooses to play a carom combination from the top rail, despite having a simple kick at the 13ball that was positioned on Alex's side rail. I thought he would of chosen the simple kick but he chose the carom combination, a testament to his ability and creativity reading the stack. This was the sequence that I was referring to earlier. After pocketing the carom he didn't come up with a follow up shot and that's when he played the power shot banking the 13ball into the stack and controlling the cue ball in back of the 10ball, another beautifully executed shot that seemed to turn the game around from no where. Also in the same game take notice on how Alex runs the balls at the 1:01:18 mark. Particularly pay attention how he plays position off the 2ball to fall on the 1ball and not the 10ball, a mistake that is often made. Playing for the 10ball off the 2ball is a huge mistake because you need to land perfectly on the 10ball to play for the 1ball afterwards. Playing for the 1ball allows you more margin for error with your position play and will give you many more options while running the balls.

Finally in game #3 this is where the battle takes place near the bottom rail and pay attention to how Alex controls the position and develops a stronger position with each shot he chooses, and their all simple shots to execute. Cutting off the table is how Alex won this battle and broke Cory down, this type of strategy has proven very productive, with this understanding when given the opportunity to choose options, lean towards choosing the options that Alex chose, providing their available.

Alex played a beautiful match against a player that exhibited a lot of skills.

Dr. Bill[/QUOshot
I say you can take every game to exactly one shot where the game was won or lost.
 

wincardona

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Dr. Bill, you are absolutely correct. Alex is the superior player in one pocket barring none. What's impressive is his ability to win at the format (race to 3) on slick diamond tables. It's so hard to play so well against a great field like the DCC had this year. I saw the Corey match and he just kept Corey boxed up the entire match. Corey is no slouch himself and he just couldn't shake loose for any offense.
Thanks Jerry, you saw it the same way I did. In spite of the 3-0 score this match was very well played by both players and masterfully by Alex. Alex is as solid a player that there is in the world playing all games, especially one pocket. Not to mention the tenaciousness that he always brings to the table.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Doc, thanks for acknowledging my use of a word more than seven syllables, it's not often that I use big words, never was my "strong suit" My forte is describing situations in "layman's terms" which I feel that I do a good job in doing. Occasionally i'll throw in a big word, kinda makes one come across like their smart, or at least more knowledgeable. (Always worked for Grady)

I would tend to agree with you on how poorly Cory broke the balls, it probably would not of changed the outcome, but at least it would of made Alex's job more difficult and interesting. Maybe he (Cory)would of won a game or possibly two, but I seriously doubt it.:sorry

I would like to bring up a few interesting times in the match that I found interesting and hopefully they will help, or at least bring to the attention that these options are viable..to a degree.:D

In game #1 18:40 Alex was in a precarious position and chose an option that got a lot done. I'll try to explain what I believe he was thinking. He chose to pocket the 12ball in the side pocket and go up table then back down table with the cue ball (a little risky) utilizing his superb cue ball control. He improved his position with opening up the 10-12ball cluster and spotted the 12ball to where now it was pocketable in his pocket and blocked several balls that were pocketable in Cory's pocket, plus he protected the 3ball which was positioned on his side of the table.

Game #1 28:13 Alex played a combination bank option that sent both balls toward his pocket, one was off a carom the other off of a combination but the most interesting part of the shot was how he played the cue ball. He drew the cue ball to his side of the table feeling that there was a good possibility that he could position the cue ball behind a ball near his side rail and protect the balls that were ultimately going to end up near his pocket. Yes the shot looked a little risky but if you notice where the balls were positioned limiting Cory with his ability to run balls the shot made a lot more sense. I thought his choice was 100% correct for him, and maybe for many players that strike balls decently.

Game #3 at the 39:02 mark Cory shows his carom reading skills as he chooses to play a carom combination from the top rail, despite having a simple kick at the 13ball that was positioned on Alex's side rail. I thought he would of chosen the simple kick but he chose the carom combination, a testament to his ability and creativity reading the stack. This was the sequence that I was referring to earlier. After pocketing the carom he didn't come up with a follow up shot and that's when he played the power shot banking the 13ball into the stack and controlling the cue ball in back of the 10ball, another beautifully executed shot that seemed to turn the game around from no where. Also in the same game take notice on how Alex runs the balls at the 1:01:18 mark. Particularly pay attention how he plays position off the 2ball to fall on the 1ball and not the 10ball, a mistake that is often made. Playing for the 10ball off the 2ball is a huge mistake because you need to land perfectly on the 10ball to play for the 1ball afterwards. Playing for the 1ball allows you more margin for error with your position play and will give you many more options while running the balls.

Finally in game #3 this is where the battle takes place near the bottom rail and pay attention to how Alex controls the position and develops a stronger position with each shot he chooses, and their all simple shots to execute. Cutting off the table is how Alex won this battle and broke Cory down, this type of strategy has proven very productive, with this understanding when given the opportunity to choose options, lean towards choosing the options that Alex chose, providing their available.

Alex played a beautiful match against a player that exhibited a lot of skills.

Dr. Bill[/QUOshot
I say you can take every game to exactly one shot where the game was won or lost.
I really don't know how to interpret that Dan, understanding that either player has the offensive skills to run out when given the opportunity is a given, however, holding and limiting one another is where the rub is, Alex shines above all the rest in that area. (imo)

Dr. Bill
 

Frank Almanza

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Thanks Billy. I'm going to find time today to watch this match and look forward to seeing the things you have described here.
One thing about Alex is that he's up and down on some shots and will not attempt the shot until he finally feels comfortable with it. When he shy's away from a shot that he wants to shoot it's because something is not quite right. I'm sure sometimes it's a fine line to determine to shoot or not to shoot but he seems to make the correct choice. I believe that sometimes it boils down to a gut feeling.
I find myself going against my gut feeling and try to make something happen when it's not there.
 

wincardona

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Perspi-whaaaaat?

Go to your room. :p

(But I have to give you special dispensation because of the excellent analysis of Alex' game... thanks! I guess I'm going to have to let you play with the rest of us word-dweebs now. :D )
Thanks John for allowing me to play with the guys. I can only wish my vocabulary was at a par with yours, if so I would be a ..mother f----r:heh I usually don't brag but thanks for the approval.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Thanks Billy. I'm going to find time today to watch this match and look forward to seeing the things you have described here.
One thing about Alex is that he's up and down on some shots and will not attempt the shot until he finally feels comfortable with it. When he shy's away from a shot that he wants to shoot it's because something is not quite right. I'm sure sometimes it's a fine line to determine to shoot or not to shoot but he seems to make the correct choice. I believe that sometimes it boils down to a gut feeling.
I find myself going against my gut feeling and try to make something happen when it's not there.
You're correct Frank, Alex is a very meticulous player and it's in the gut where all the information is stored, (for all of us) always try to side with the gut, i'm sure you know what I mean. It's when we ignore the gut is when we run into problems, the gut is our strongest instinct.

Dr. Bill
 

Cory in dc

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Doc, thanks for acknowledging my use of a word more than seven syllables, it's not often that I use big words, never was my "strong suit" My forte is describing situations in "layman's terms" which I feel that I do a good job in doing. Occasionally i'll throw in a big word, kinda makes one come across like their smart, or at least more knowledgeable. (Always worked for Grady)

I would tend to agree with you on how poorly Cory broke the balls, it probably would not of changed the outcome, but at least it would of made Alex's job more difficult and interesting. Maybe he (Cory)would of won a game or possibly two, but I seriously doubt it.:sorry

I would like to bring up a few interesting times in the match that I found interesting and hopefully they will help, or at least bring to the attention that these options are viable..to a degree.:D

In game #1 18:40 Alex was in a precarious position and chose an option that got a lot done. I'll try to explain what I believe he was thinking. He chose to pocket the 12ball in the side pocket and go up table then back down table with the cue ball (a little risky) utilizing his superb cue ball control. He improved his position with opening up the 10-12ball cluster and spotted the 12ball to where now it was pocketable in his pocket and blocked several balls that were pocketable in Cory's pocket, plus he protected the 3ball which was positioned on his side of the table.

Game #1 28:13 Alex played a combination bank option that sent both balls toward his pocket, one was off a carom the other off of a combination but the most interesting part of the shot was how he played the cue ball. He drew the cue ball to his side of the table feeling that there was a good possibility that he could position the cue ball behind a ball near his side rail and protect the balls that were ultimately going to end up near his pocket. Yes the shot looked a little risky but if you notice where the balls were positioned limiting Cory with his ability to run balls the shot made a lot more sense. I thought his choice was 100% correct for him, and maybe for many players that strike balls decently.

Game #3 at the 39:02 mark Cory shows his carom reading skills as he chooses to play a carom combination from the top rail, despite having a simple kick at the 13ball that was positioned on Alex's side rail. I thought he would of chosen the simple kick but he chose the carom combination, a testament to his ability and creativity reading the stack. This was the sequence that I was referring to earlier. After pocketing the carom he didn't come up with a follow up shot and that's when he played the power shot banking the 13ball into the stack and controlling the cue ball in back of the 10ball, another beautifully executed shot that seemed to turn the game around from no where. Also in the same game take notice on how Alex runs the balls at the 1:01:18 mark. Particularly pay attention how he plays position off the 2ball to fall on the 1ball and not the 10ball, a mistake that is often made. Playing for the 10ball off the 2ball is a huge mistake because you need to land perfectly on the 10ball to play for the 1ball afterwards. Playing for the 1ball allows you more margin for error with your position play and will give you many more options while running the balls.

Finally in game #3 this is where the battle takes place near the bottom rail and pay attention to how Alex controls the position and develops a stronger position with each shot he chooses, and their all simple shots to execute. Cutting off the table is how Alex won this battle and broke Cory down, this type of strategy has proven very productive, with this understanding when given the opportunity to choose options, lean towards choosing the options that Alex chose, providing their available.

Alex played a beautiful match against a player that exhibited a lot of skills.

Dr. Bill
You're a real scholar of the game, thanks Billy. I look forward to closely reviewing the scenarios you flagged and learning something.

Cory
 

LSJohn

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You're correct Frank, Alex is a very meticulous player and it's in the gut where all the information is stored, (for all of us) always try to side with the gut, i'm sure you know what I mean. It's when we ignore the gut is when we run into problems, the gut is our strongest instinct.

Dr. Bill
I agree with you about "the gut" Bill, but I'm a pain in the ass about details of theory.

To many "the gut" implies something almost mystical. I believe it is actually your brain signalling you about experiences you've had and information you have in the deep recesses that you can't recall consciously. IOW, your subconscious mind knows and is telling you things your conscious mind can't put a finger on.

The reason we should rely on it is that it's evidence-based. We just don't know exactly what the evidence is.
 

LSJohn

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You're a real scholar of the game, thanks Billy.

Cory
No shit.

I hope most of us realize how lucky we are and how much we owe Bill and Steve.

I still can't make a ball, but I'm getting a pretty good idea what to do when I'm smart enough not to try. :eek:

Saaaaaa-looooot! (Call BR-549)
 
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