Aiming systems

One Pocket John

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gulfportdoc said:
Oh, okay, Bill. Sims must not be the guy I was thinking about. I was thinking there was a guy named Harry, a strong older 3C player, who owned the poolroom on Lankershim in N. Hyd in the 1960's. It was obviously someone else.

Nice to hear that Torres is alive and kicking.

Doc
Maybe this may help.

Harry told me his nick name in Calif was Hollywood Fats.

John
 

fred bentivegna

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Whassamattah?

Whassamattah?

Nobody sees the 800 lb gorilla in the room?

Beard

Born, not made?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
Nobody sees the 800 lb gorilla in the room?

Beard

Born, not made?
Freddy,

With all due respect to you, maybe everybody is just tired of it already. We can argue nature/nurture all day long and it wouldn't change a thing. It's always a combination of both. You can't excel without natural talent and some need information and learning to maximize their natural talent.

Dennis
 

lll

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Freddy,

With all due respect to you, maybe everybody is just tired of it already. We can argue nature/nurture all day long and it wouldn't change a thing. It's always a combination of both. You can't excel without natural talent and some need information and learning to maximize their natural talent.

Dennis
what he said .
especially the last sentence:)
 

fred bentivegna

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Who's arguing?

Who's arguing?

Cowboy Dennis said:
Freddy,

With all due respect to you, maybe everybody is just tired of it already. We can argue nature/nurture all day long and it wouldn't change a thing. It's always a combination of both. You can't excel without natural talent and some need information and learning to maximize their natural talent.

Dennis
I couldnt agree more. I always knew there was more to you then a guy who just liked monster booty's. You are a voice of reason in a Tsunami of insanity.

Beard

I think, "Tsunami of insanity" is just as good as your, "nature/nuture."
If only you moved a little better on the WEI table.
 

SJDinPHX

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Yes, I see the 800 lb Gorilla...he is your ego !

Yes, I see the 800 lb Gorilla...he is your ego !

I noticed you did not respond to your "life long friend"...who accidently said some less than flattering things about you in his umpteenth "buttinski" post. He does have a way with words, doesn't he ?

Your intense dislike for me, is unfounded. It is merely a Tsunami of "denial".All I've done is point out some of your "glaring" personality traits... as you have been quick to point out mine. It is a chicken/egg thing as far as I'm concerned.

You seem to forget that you were the first one who got real "personal", with the "lunchpail" stuff. When that didn't work, you took every other cheap shot you could. What began as ribbing, quickly became personal, when I struck a few nerves with the "bragging, beatlist, ego, thin skin" stuff.

To me, thats not personal...it is just factual. NOBODY in a pool room, would ever go bananas over that. In a pool room environment, you can call the biggest gambler in the joint, a "cheap,no gamble p---k" and he would just laugh and know you were needling for a bet. Guess it comes off a little different in a forum conversation, huh ?

Our verbal slugfests have initiated a ton of supportive PM's, from people you would never dream of. They will never get involved, (pro or con) because they like both of us. A few (one, for sure) cannot help but butt in publicly, at the drop of a hat.

I never have felt "victimized" at all. I do feel bad that I have made an enemy of you...But, I am glad you are the only one I have..(that I know of)..:cool:

I am sitting here in my motel room, in Hawthorne, Nevada, debating whether to go to the Mustang Ranch, or wait for your reply...I have a feeling I will get f--ked either way..:p
 
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fred bentivegna

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Speaking of ego...

Speaking of ego...

SJDinPHX said:
I noticed you did not respond to your "life long friend"...who accidently said some less than flattering things about you in his umpteenth "buttinski" post. He does have a way with words, doesn't he ?

Your intense dislike for me, is unfounded. It is merely a Tsunami of "denial".All I've done is point out some of your "glaring" personality traits... as you have been quick to point out mine. It is a chicken/egg thing as far as I'm concerned.

You seem to forget that you were the first one who got real "personal", with the "lunchpail" stuff. When that didn't work, you took every other cheap shot you could. What began as ribbing, quickly became personal, when I struck a few nerves with the "bragging, beatlist, ego, thin skin" stuff.

To me, thats not personal...it is just factual. NOBODY in a pool room, would ever go bananas over that. In a pool room environment, you can call the biggest gambler in the joint, a "cheap,no gamble p---k" and he would just laugh and know you were needling for a bet. Guess it comes off a little different in a forum conversation, huh ?

Our verbal slug fests have initiated a ton of supportive PM's, from people you would never dream of. They will never get involved, (pro or con) because they like both of us. A few (one, for sure) cannot help but butt in publicly, at the drop of a hat.

I never have felt "victimized" at all. I do feel bad that I have made an enemy of you...But, I am glad you are the only one I have..(that I know of)..:cool:

I am sitting here in my motel room, in Hawthorne, Nevada, debating whether to go to the Mustang Ranch, or wait for your reply...I have a feeling I will get f--ked either way..:p
...and thin skin. I wasn't even referring to you in my last post to Dennis. Are you now hearing voices? Why should I have responded to Mr 3 C? He pretty much spoke the truth. Big highs and big lows does best describe my career. When have I ever claimed anything else? I can handle "unflattering" comments as long as the commentator is fair minded without an agenda.
You missed the key point of his post, of course. The part where he verified that after 15 yrs my efforts finally paid off, and I broke thru to the top level.
That was the whole point of our last disagreement.

I'll give you credit tho, your childlike, "who me" innocence, is a thing of beauty. Now you're going to claim that I was the first person to get personal with the lunch pail stuff.
What I did start, re you on these forums was to say that I had heard that you were a very good player and gambler. That's the first thing I said about you. I don't recall ever getting any of that back from you. You have never once referred to me as a good player. (that "niche" bullsh*t doesn't amount to much) You have only shown me disrespect. The best players in the world don't show me disrespect, but you do. My beat list is real enough, but what you did was make fun of it, and me. I only responded negatively when I became filled up with your unsolicited assessments of what kind of person I should be, in order to please you.

Insofar as us wolfing in a poolroom? Anybody that knows me knows that I would drown you like a bug in a toilet flush.

Beard
 

fred bentivegna

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Respond to this too..

Respond to this too..

Years ago, I took a class in communication and debate. I learned that there were actual rules to correct communicative interaction. The first and most important element of the exchange is to acknowledge what the other person has stated before you make your own reply. This is best done by verbally repeating the point your debating opposite has made. This shows respect and consideration for his opinion, no matter how diametrically opposed you may be to it. To ignore what the other person has said, and just launch into your own talking points is a sure sign of an intrinsic weakness in your argument.

This forum is peopled with those who are looking for ways to improve their onepocket game, so I told a story, in the hopes that I could show through personal experience, what was possible with the acquisition of knowledge. I'm referring to proper knowledge of course. Not the 95% gibberish that routinely flows through AZ's aiming threads. My side of the argument offers hope to the motivated, determined, and ambitious. The other guy's side says that you are just f*cked unless you were born with a silver stick up your ass -- like of course, he evidently thinks he was born with. I don't even have a problem with that outlook. I disagree of course. That's his opinion. I don't have any sort of problem with him offering a dissenting opinion -- like he misleadingly claims that I do.

If he would have conceded that my very personal disclosure was true, but that I was perhaps an exception to what he believed, I could have handled that. But instead he said this:

I would like some names please ...of ANYONE, who excelled at ANYTHING, hand/eye related, and did NOT do it very well, long before they were 30 years old...

Me, goddamit, me! I just got through saying I did it! As you can all see, he violated rule 1 of communication, he discarded, ignored, and thereby invalidated and declared what I related wasn't even worthy of consideration.

...but you cannot spot the world a 15-20 year head start, playing anything, and catch up by reading books ...or, by being "taught" by the greatest teacher in the world ...Something has to click ...way before age 30.

I declared that I actually took about 16 yrs to wake up. His "opinion" is that I didn't do what I said I did. That's not an opinion, THAT'S AN ACCUSATION. If I didn't do what I said, is there anything else that you can call me besides a liar?
 

Skin

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fred bentivegna said:
...and thin skin. I wasn't even referring to you in my last post to Dennis.
Beard
Did you have someone specifically in mind when you wrote "Tsunami of insanity"?

Skin
 

Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
I couldnt agree more. I always knew there was more to you then a guy who just liked monster booty's. You are a voice of reason in a Tsunami of insanity.

Beard

I think, "Tsunami of insanity" is just as good as your, "nature/nuture."
If only you moved a little better on the WEI table.
Freddy,

Actually there's not much more to me than a guy who likes big-bootied women:cool: .

As long as you brought it up, I'll critique it for you: Tsunami of Tstupidity would have been funnier:) , but you did O.K..

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

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Nah...

Nah...

Skin said:
Did you have someone specifically in mind when you wrote "Tsunami of insanity"?

Skin
...not really. I was basically just trying to say something cute. Then Dennis has to pee on my post and top it with, Tsunami of Tstupidity.

Beard

If I was aiming at the other guy, I would have made it way more obvious. He just has a guilty conscience, and sees monsters in his cornflakes.
 

androd

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fred bentivegna said:
...


If I was aiming at the other guy, I would have made it way more obvious. He just has a guilty conscience, and sees monsters in his cornflakes.
Beard
Pool/pond Atlantic/pacific Pot/kettle I'd say they're two of you.
Boring ! :rolleyes:
Rod.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
...not really. I was basically just trying to say something cute. Then Dennis has to pee on my post and top it with, Tsunami of Tstupidity.

Beard
Just trying to help the literati amongst us:D .
 

lll

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fred bentivegna said:
.. Then Dennis goes and tops it with, Tsunami of Tstupidity. (paraphrased)

Beard
dennis that was awful nice of the beard to give you a compliment.:rolleyes: :D
 

Richard S

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Back to Aiming METHODS

Back to Aiming METHODS

Almost every time the subject of aiming systems comes up on one of the forums, the posters start disagreeing and the thread degrades into an off topic flame war. Taking into account what they say about opinions, I believe that the critics either can’t stand the idea that a system of any kind is possible or they think they are trying to hide what they believe to be an inside secret, or at least a secret they believe gives them a competitive edge.

The system(s) I have been taught are strictly for pocketing balls and do nothing more than provide a means of accurate ghost ball striking. These systems are easy to prove by applying Thales Theorem for inscribed angles: An inscribed angle inside a circle, one side of which is a diameter always subtends to a right angle opposite the diameter line. On a pool table, the diameter line through a ball pointed to a pocket, which happens to be the corner of a square inside which the ball is situated, forms a right triangle the exact same shape as those formed by the contact point to the center of the pocket and to both of the rails extending from that pocket. While this is not rocket science, I think this is the principle on which most of the aim and pivot type systems are based. If one does nothing but visualize the two triangles in the object ball and cue ball, or better yet, develops a system for visualizing it in the cue ball, the ghost ball, and the object ball, it should be beneficial to some extent. I certainly don’t claim to be an expert, but I have had success with the aim and pivot method, cue stick alignment methods, and simple visualization. I suggest there is no one-size-fits-all and I have not discussed variables, like throw, deflection, etc.

Also, taking this to another level, using a means of aligning the diameters of the two balls other than the aforementioned, must be a competent skill for the many shots where we are not aiming at a pocket. I remember several of the old timers telling me to practice skinning a ball and placing the cue ball in a specific spot and that this was one of the most important skills to develop for One Pocket. Speaking for myself, I have never practiced caroms enough. Of course, as we all know there is no end to good safety shots and there are usually several good options for any good safety.

richard s
 
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gulfportdoc

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Good post, Richie. Not bad for a guy from a small town in Mississippi.;)

Doc
 

lll

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Richard S said:
Almost every time the subject of aiming systems comes up on one of the forums, the posters start disagreeing and the thread degrades into an off topic flame war. Taking into account what they say about opinions, I believe that the critics either can’t stand the idea that a system of any kind is possible or they think they are trying to hide what they believe to be an inside secret, or at least a secret they believe gives them a competitive edge.

The system(s) I have been taught are strictly for pocketing balls and do nothing more than provide a means of accurate ghost ball striking. These systems are easy to prove by applying Thales Theorem for inscribed angles: An inscribed angle inside a circle, one side of which is a diameter always subtends to a right angle opposite the diameter line. On a pool table, the diameter line through a ball pointed to a pocket, which happens to be the corner of a square inside which the ball is situated, forms a right triangle the exact same shape as those formed by the contact point to the center of the pocket and to both of the rails extending from that pocket. While this is not rocket science, I think this is the principle on which most of the aim and pivot type systems are based. If one does nothing but visualize the two triangles in the object ball and cue ball, or better yet, develops a system for visualizing it in the cue ball, the ghost ball, and the object ball, it should be beneficial to some extent. I certainly don’t claim to be an expert, but I have had success with the aim and pivot method, cue stick alignment methods, and simple visualization. I suggest there is no one-size-fits-all and I have not discussed variables, like throw, deflection, etc.

Also, taking this to another level, using a means aligning the diameters of the two balls other than the aforementioned, must be a competent skill for the many shots where we are not aiming at a pocket. I remember several of the old timers telling me to practice skinning a ball and placing the cue ball in a specific spot and that this was one of the most important skills to develop for One Pocket. Speaking for myself, I have never practiced caroms enough. Of course, as we all know there is no end to good safety shots and there are usually several good options for any good safety.

richard s
the 1960's must have been good to you:rolleyes: jmho:)
 

SJDinPHX

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fred bentivegna said:
.

If he would have conceded that my very personal disclosure was true, but that I was perhaps an exception to what he believed, I could have handled that. But instead he said this:

I would like some names please ...of ANYONE, who excelled at ANYTHING, hand/eye related, and did NOT do it very well, long before they were 30 years old...

Me, goddamit, me! I just got through saying I did it! As you can all see, he violated rule 1 of communication, he discarded, ignored, and thereby invalidated and declared what I related wasn't even worthy of consideration.

...but you cannot spot the world a 15-20 year head start, playing anything, and catch up by reading books ...or, by being "taught" by the greatest teacher in the world ...Something has to click ...way before age 30.

I declared that I actually took about 16 yrs to wake up. His "opinion" is that I didn't do what I said I did. That's not an opinion, THAT'S AN ACCUSATION. If I didn't do what I said, is there anything else that you can call me besides a liar?
Not to crank it up again, but I have missed a lot of your venemous attacks.
I think maybe I see where we are having a problem in our communications.

I did not say what happened to you, at age 30, did not happen...I am merely trying to point out, you in your constant state of braggadacio, NEVER actually became a TOP LEVEL player...at anything, any more than I did. Our games were "respectable" and we may have caught a few "real" players off guard a few times, but that is not my interpretation of "Top Level"

I will give you your "pool smarts" and your gift of gab, your work ethic, your instructional books.... and your debating and literary skills...but you've got to face the fact, that you were only a "top level player" in your own eyes.
Shouting "Me Godammit me", should have been your first clue

With your insults, you pushed me to say how I really feel...Flush that bug down the toilet...:cool:
 

fred bentivegna

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I have joined the personality flaw police

I have joined the personality flaw police

SJDinPHX said:
Not to crank it up again,[sic]... but I have missed a lot of your venemous attacks. I think maybe I see where we are having a problem in our communications. However, I place the odds of you admitting it, at about 700K to 1..!

I did not say what happened to you, at age 30, did not happen...I am merely trying to point out, that in your constant state of braggadacio, you NEVER actually became a TOP LEVEL player...at anything, any more than I did.
Our games were "respectable" and we may have caught a few "real" players off guard a few times, but that is not my interpretation of "Top Level"...
We were talking about people like Arnie and Jack, and MJ...Do you really think you attained that level in your chosen sport ???

I will give you your "pool smarts" and your gift of gab, your work ethic, your instructional books.... and your debating and literary skills...but you've got to face the fact, that you were only a "top level player" in your own mind.

Shouting "Me Godammit, me !", should have stirred something, in even your uber-egotistical grey matter..!

With your insults, you pushed me to say how I really feel...Flush that bug down the toilet...:cool:
You are finally right about something. I never did make it as high as Arnie, Jack or MJ. I feel so bad about that. Out of 10 billion people I never got as high as three of them. Your list is very telling, however. It looks like you really want to get personal. You even took a self-deprecating shot at yourself to certify it. I will do the same, but I'll take a reverse, realistic positive position. Fact is, just because you have been a creep to me doesn't change the fact that I still believe you were a TOP LEVEL ONE POCKET PLAYER. Right is right. That said, I also truly believe that I for sure ranked up in that level my own f*ckin' self. Your resentful knocks aside, my beat list is real, it aint no, "Protocol's of the Elders of Zion," much as you would like it to be.

Now let's venture as far into your "personality flaws" as you have into mine. I have now got you diagnosed as a self-hating pool hustler. Probably related to your 20 year self-exile. You never forgave yourself, and now you rationalize by always looking down on pool and pool players. Note your examples included 2 golfers and a basketball player!??? Not one pool player rates your approval? With a machete at my throat I wouldn't have put up that kind of a treasonous list. That's one of the things I meant when I talked about loyalty. You showed what you really think about pool. Why not Wimpy, Bugs and RA?
Yeah, I know you still play, but you remind me of the guy that constantly picks up women, has his way, and then after, slaps them around and curses them out.

In your 4097 posts on here how much ink have you ever given to anyone for playing good? I write whole chapters on how good guys played. Bragging on Scott Frost don't count. You are recused from that one. After getting drubbed getting 10 to 4, it's only natural that you would talk about how good he played.


Beard
 
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