Aiming at the CB?

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,131
You have always encouraged one to play with a loose grip, seems like it's a less stressful way of playing as opposed to tightening up your back hand.

Dr Bill
I believe the tighter grip puts a little overspin on the CB and also transfers to the OB.
Causing missing the cuts and kissing the banks. Most allow to correct for this with our muscle memory, because we've been doing it since we began to play.
Rod.
P.S Enough said.
 

vapros

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
3,308
Bill, thanks for the helpful diagram, but I believe it needs an edit. In the first diagram, the english indicated is at 2 o'clock, not 10 o'clock.

Bill
 

mr3cushion

Suspended
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
6,062
Bill, thanks for the helpful diagram, but I believe it needs an edit. In the first diagram, the english indicated is at 2 o'clock, not 10 o'clock.

Bill
Bill; you had me really worried there for a minute! :eek: I made this up in a hurry for 1 pocket org. I just looked at one of my books, ALL is fine!

You are correct, it should show 2 O'clock English!

Thanx so much!

BTW, Bill, did you have an opportunity to try this method, and if so, did you find it helpful?
 

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
Thank you, I find this to be a very informative way to confirm your accuracy when trying to feel the exactness of hits.

In spite of being off topic a bit I agree with the Beard when he said that using a loose back hand will increase your ability when cutting balls, at least that's what I feel when shooting them. (cut shots)

Dr. Bill
My thoughts are that, generally speaking, loose muscles and grips tend allow your body to "get out of the way" of the shot. However, there are dozens of ways to make any given cut shot: some like to spin it in with natural, some like the inherent deflection with inside and some like to cue it center ball. The bottom line is the angle, speed and spin of the cue ball. There is no sorcery involved.
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,619
The bottom line is the angle, speed and spin of the cue ball. There is no sorcery involved.
What I'm saying -- and I think it's what some others are getting at too -- is that you are more likely to get the angle, speed and spin you intend if you "let it happen" with relaxed muscles rather than trying to "make it happen" with more control. I think "Swing" -- to keep from stabbing -- but Allen Hopkins and Grady seemed to do OK with more intentional control.

IMO, given enough natural ability, almost any method will work. For us average folks, technique matters. This is more obvious, but no more true, in golf. Top players with massive differences in technique.

Edit to add: I think "swing" when I practice, but only play well when I'm not thinking of technique at all.
 

Hidy Ho

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
79
Lots of video where you can see Bustamonte using the same technique.
Francisco Bustamante is one guy who I can't figure out where the CB is going by looking at how he's addressing the whitey. I've sat close to his matches few times and and it looked like he's aiming for a draw but CB follows the object ball three rails the other way.
 

Carla Johnson

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
101
Aiming at the CB?

I remember when I first started playing pool, watching Denny Searcy, Babyface Whitlow, and Cornbread Red. They all have marvelously fluid slip strokes, and could really hit some gorgeous shots. Red's was less apparent, but was still a modified slip. Similar to what Busty does with his loose fluid swing. None of them addressed the cue ball where they intended to hit it.

In golf, timing is so important in a swing. In pool, timing may not be important in a Hopkins style short stroke, but for Busty, it is everything. And for everyone, in some shots, like extreme cuts, the timing, or when you let go of the cue stick, can be the difference between making the ball or not. I think thats what Freddy meant when he said the guy hung onto the cue too long.
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,619
I remember when I first started playing pool, watching Denny Searcy, Babyface Whitlow, and Cornbread Red. They all have marvelously fluid slip strokes, and could really hit some gorgeous shots. Red's was less apparent, but was still a modified slip. Similar to what Busty does with his loose fluid swing. None of them addressed the cue ball where they intended to hit it.

In golf, timing is so important in a swing. In pool, timing may not be important in a Hopkins style short stroke, but for Busty, it is everything. And for everyone, in some shots, like extreme cuts, the timing, or when you let go of the cue stick, can be the difference between making the ball or not. I think thats what Freddy meant when he said the guy hung onto the cue too long.
Carla, I've never met you, and I recall only one previous post here from you, but from this one and hearing you -- or was it you? -- on commentary on one of Wade's matches, I'm guessing you were "Billy's" wife. Right?
 
Last edited:

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Carla, I've never met you, and I recall only one previous post here from you, but from this one and hearing you on commentary on one of Wade's matches, I'm guessing you were "Billy's" wife. Right?
John, Wade Crane aka Billie Johnson's legend is completely overshadowed by the legend of Carla Johnson which is still a work in progress. I'll let others fill in the details.
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,619
John, Wade Crane aka Billie Johnson's legend is completely overshadowed by the legend of Carla Johnson which is still a work in progress. I'll let others fill in the details.

Heh. You're holdin' out on me.

Give it up! :)
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Heh. You're holdin' out on me.

Give it up! :)
I really don't want to get any of the details wrong and I don't want to go beyond what Carla would want. I was hoping Dennis or somebody from the rust belt would help out here.
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,619
I really don't want to get any of the details wrong and I don't want to go beyond what Carla would want. I was hoping Dennis or somebody from the rust belt would help out here.
OK, I understand.

I was half-jokin', assuming you had a good reason.
 

Carla Johnson

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
101
Aiming at the CB?

Petie:

I don’t think we have met. But here is my story:

I play bad one pocket and bet high at Hard Times in Bellflower.

I got hooked on pool in college, we played straight pool back then, and I traveled to all the U.S. Open Qualifiers until I finally won one and played in the US Open.

But about the same time, I discovered 9 ball and action. I forgot all about straight pool, and traveled around the country, playing and sweating action matches and tournaments.

I practically lived at the Rack n’ Cue in Detroit in the 70’s, day and night, watching all the great players play nine ball, one pocket and snooker. There was a lot of action there for good and mediocre and bad players, I played every day, often for $100 a game, and sometimes $5000 to $20,000 a set.

Detroit had a ton of bar table action during that time. I had a regular game with a guy who would lose quite a bit of money to me. One day when I got to his bar, he said he could not play because he had to pay his lawyer. I asked how much, and he said $40,000. That is when it occurred to me that maybe I should be a criminal lawyer. So I eventually ended up going to law school, and practicing in Detroit.

My most famous case was Michigan v. Harmelin. Ronnie Harmelin was the deskman at the Rack ‘n Cue, he liked to use a little coke and speed to stay awake. He got arrested with a kilo of coke in the trunk of his car that he was carrying for someone else. At the time, that crime carried life in prison with no parole in Michigan. The only way out was to rat on the guy whose dope it was, but he would not. So he got convicted. I appealed his case, he had no prior record, not even a parking ticket, and had been in the Honor Guard at JFK’s funeral. I argued that his sentence was cruel and unusual punishment under the 8th amendment, since he was a first time offender and just carrying the dope for another guy. I argued the case in the US Supreme Court, and lost 5-4. But in the opinion, Justice Scalia said, it may be cruel but it’s not unusual. Since the Michigan constitution forbids cruel OR unusual punishment, that was a technicality I could use. We went back to Michigan court and I ended up getting Ronnie out after 12 years. Sadly, he died of a heart attack that year, but he was really happy to be back on the outside, breathing fresh air for a while. He died happy and free.

I moved to LA for the weather, and I am a lawyer out here now. Most of the action out here is one pocket, and I love to play it and watch it.

That’s my story.
 

vapros

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
3,308
'Nother great story. This is a good place to hang out. Excellent work, CJ. Don't stop now. :)
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,619
Petie:

I don’t think we have met. But here is my story:

I play bad one pocket and bet high at Hard Times in Bellflower.

I got hooked on pool in college, we played straight pool back then, and I traveled to all the U.S. Open Qualifiers until I finally won one and played in the US Open.

But about the same time, I discovered 9 ball and action. I forgot all about straight pool, and traveled around the country, playing and sweating action matches and tournaments.

I practically lived at the Rack n’ Cue in Detroit in the 70’s, day and night, watching all the great players play nine ball, one pocket and snooker. There was a lot of action there for good and mediocre and bad players, I played every day, often for $100 a game, and sometimes $5000 to $20,000 a set.

Detroit had a ton of bar table action during that time. I had a regular game with a guy who would lose quite a bit of money to me. One day when I got to his bar, he said he could not play because he had to pay his lawyer. I asked how much, and he said $40,000. That is when it occurred to me that maybe I should be a criminal lawyer. So I eventually ended up going to law school, and practicing in Detroit.

My most famous case was Michigan v. Harmelin. Ronnie Harmelin was the deskman at the Rack ‘n Cue, he liked to use a little coke and speed to stay awake. He got arrested with a kilo of coke in the trunk of his car that he was carrying for someone else. At the time, that crime carried life in prison with no parole in Michigan. The only way out was to rat on the guy whose dope it was, but he would not. So he got convicted. I appealed his case, he had no prior record, not even a parking ticket, and had been in the Honor Guard at JFK’s funeral. I argued that his sentence was cruel and unusual punishment under the 8th amendment, since he was a first time offender and just carrying the dope for another guy. I argued the case in the US Supreme Court, and lost 5-4. But in the opinion, Justice Scalia said, it may be cruel but it’s not unusual. Since the Michigan constitution forbids cruel OR unusual punishment, that was a technicality I could use. We went back to Michigan court and I ended up getting Ronnie out after 12 years. Sadly, he died of a heart attack that year, but he was really happy to be back on the outside, breathing fresh air for a while. He died happy and free.

I moved to LA for the weather, and I am a lawyer out here now. Most of the action out here is one pocket, and I love to play it and watch it.

That’s my story.
Great! Thank you.

Come around more often. :)
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,275
I believe the tighter grip puts a little overspin on the CB and also transfers to the OB.
Causing missing the cuts and kissing the banks. Most allow to correct for this with our muscle memory, because we've been doing it since we began to play.
Rod.
P.S Enough said.
I like the looser grip because you're allowing the cue to do most of the work, imo that would result in a better understanding of speed and accuracy. When you use a tighter grip tension now becomes a factor in speed and accuracy, a little more difficult to get consistency.

Dr. Bill
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Petie:

I don’t think we have met. But here is my story:

I play bad one pocket and bet high at Hard Times in Bellflower.

I got hooked on pool in college, we played straight pool back then, and I traveled to all the U.S. Open Qualifiers until I finally won one and played in the US Open.

But about the same time, I discovered 9 ball and action. I forgot all about straight pool, and traveled around the country, playing and sweating action matches and tournaments.

I practically lived at the Rack n’ Cue in Detroit in the 70’s, day and night, watching all the great players play nine ball, one pocket and snooker. There was a lot of action there for good and mediocre and bad players, I played every day, often for $100 a game, and sometimes $5000 to $20,000 a set.

Detroit had a ton of bar table action during that time. I had a regular game with a guy who would lose quite a bit of money to me. One day when I got to his bar, he said he could not play because he had to pay his lawyer. I asked how much, and he said $40,000. That is when it occurred to me that maybe I should be a criminal lawyer. So I eventually ended up going to law school, and practicing in Detroit.

My most famous case was Michigan v. Harmelin. Ronnie Harmelin was the deskman at the Rack ‘n Cue, he liked to use a little coke and speed to stay awake. He got arrested with a kilo of coke in the trunk of his car that he was carrying for someone else. At the time, that crime carried life in prison with no parole in Michigan. The only way out was to rat on the guy whose dope it was, but he would not. So he got convicted. I appealed his case, he had no prior record, not even a parking ticket, and had been in the Honor Guard at JFK’s funeral. I argued that his sentence was cruel and unusual punishment under the 8th amendment, since he was a first time offender and just carrying the dope for another guy. I argued the case in the US Supreme Court, and lost 5-4. But in the opinion, Justice Scalia said, it may be cruel but it’s not unusual. Since the Michigan constitution forbids cruel OR unusual punishment, that was a technicality I could use. We went back to Michigan court and I ended up getting Ronnie out after 12 years. Sadly, he died of a heart attack that year, but he was really happy to be back on the outside, breathing fresh air for a while. He died happy and free.

I moved to LA for the weather, and I am a lawyer out here now. Most of the action out here is one pocket, and I love to play it and watch it.

That’s my story.
This is great, Carla. I'm from Flint and used to see you sweating at all the tournaments after 1984 when I moved back to Flint. We did meet a time or two and I had a crush on your friend, the little blonde nurse who liked bank pool. I can't think of her name but it might come to me before I submit this. Paula; that's it. I should say that Paula and I never dated--just a crush. The last time I saw you was at DCC about 3 years ago and we said 'Hi' but didn't talk long. It sounds like you are doing well and I am happy you are. Thanks for posting this.
 
Top