A Funny Thing Happened...

Cowboy Dennis

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At the D.C.C. Bank Finals (2nd finals), game 2, SVB was left this position by Johnny Morra and he needed one ball. I didn't see him call a pocket but he fired the two-railer in with speed and everyone applauded so I figured he had called it two-rails and I missed it.

He shook his head a little and took the 3 out of the pocket and looked like he was going to spot it up. Then it looked like he had an epiphany as he got near the footrail. He picked up the 6 & the cueball, or at least the 6 (as best as I can remember) and acted like he had played the 3 ball two-rails and thus won the game. The TD brought over the other balls and SVB started to rack for the next game.

Johnny Morra finally inquired as to which pocket Shane had called for the 3 as he apparently didn't know. The TD got involved now and the three of them talked for a couple of minutes. It was finally decided that SVB had called the 3 ball four-rails. Morra was awarded the game since SVB had disturbed the balls on the table.

Did anyone see this happen? It seems a clear case of cheating to me but why would SVB do that in front of an audience, cameras and a TD? The audience didn't know anything since they applauded when he made the 3. I must be missing something here but I don't know what.

SVB's Shot.jpg
 

Jimmy B

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At the D.C.C. Bank Finals (2nd finals), game 2, SVB was left this position by Johnny Morra and he needed one ball. I didn't see him call a pocket but he fired the two-railer in with speed and everyone applauded so I figured he had called it two-rails and I missed it.

He shook his head a little and took the 3 out of the pocket and looked like he was going to spot it up. Then it looked like he had an epiphany as he got near the footrail. He picked up the 6 & the cueball, or at least the 6 (as best as I can remember) and acted like he had played the 3 ball two-rails and thus won the game. The TD brought over the other balls and SVB started to rack for the next game.

Johnny Morra finally inquired as to which pocket Shane had called for the 3 as he apparently didn't know. The TD got involved now and the three of them talked for a couple of minutes. It was finally decided that SVB had called the 3 ball four-rails. Morra was awarded the game since SVB had disturbed the balls on the table.

Did anyone see this happen? It seems a clear case of cheating to me but why would SVB do that in front of an audience, cameras and a TD? The audience didn't know anything since they applauded when he made the 3. I must be missing something here but I don't know what.

View attachment 5228


Yes I saw this incident and it was amusing. When the two railer went, the audience started applauding and Shuman grabs ball from Shanes box and rolls them down the table, so Shane just decided to go along with it, but Morra said wait, were you not 4 railing? After a few seconds Shane said yea, I was so since Shuman rolled the balls down table, I think they should have been reset and the play continued, but then somebody said Shane had picked up the cue ball which I don't remember clearly because I was playing with a cat etc., But Shane just had a moment there. He doen't play dirty and admitted it right away. John was just talking about this sort of thing and how they should call the shot or point at the pocket. I knew when the two railer went in that it was not what he intended because they rarely shoot that type of shot in that situation and Shane was lagging at everything like one pocket shots. It's funny how Brumback and Daulton have such different styles than Shane and Morra. And Earls is quite different from all of them................
 

Cowboy Dennis

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But Shane just had a moment there. He doen't play dirty and admitted it right away.
JB,

SVB didn't admit it right away and even if he had then what he admitted to was cheating, no more, no less.

He didn't "have a moment" either. I think he heard the audience applauding and figured "maybe I'll take a shot" and decided to act like he had won the game.

I would've DQ'ed him from the match, the tournament and barred him from the building if he had done that in a tourney I was running.

To be clear, SVB played the ball four-rails but then tried to take credit for it when it went two-rails. That is cheating, no more, no less.

Dennis
 

Warren

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I saw this shot also.

I thought Shane played it two rails. I thought he pointed out his pocket but then called it incorrectly.(Thinking two rails, said 4 rails) Brain fart??? Who knows??

Especially, since it didn't seem to be hit hard enough to go four rails. Shane hadn't hit many balls hard all night. I thought he, two railed it out up to the corner where Mora had no long rail with the six in the pocket if he missed. The score at the time was 4 to 3, I think. Six was safe in the corner pocket.

A big FUBAR for sure, Turned the whole match.

Can't wait for a video of this one.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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On the All-Zaniness site a few people have chimed in, including one who was there when it happened.

P.S. Apparently it was the 7 ball not the 3 ball as I said.

AtLarge said:
It was quite an amazing, or perhaps strange is a better word, finals.

John was undefeated entering the finals, and Shane had one loss; so Shane would have to beat John twice.

Shane won the first set 3-2, with both players playing well. The shooter made more than one bank in a row 10 times in the set.

So, on to set 2.

- Game 1. With Shane ahead 2-0, John ran 5 in a row for the win.

- Game 2. With Shane ahead 4-3 and shooting a spot shot from near a far corner pocket, he made the shot 2 rails. Many people thought it was the game-winning shot, and Shane even picked up the cue ball. But then he disclosed that he had called 4 rails, not 2. So the game was awarded to John since Shane picked up the CB (unsportsmanlike conduct).
- Game 3. A "normal" game, with Shane winning 5-2.

- Game 4. Shane took a 4-2 lead and then managed to foul 3 times and hang the winning shot who knows how many times. John was at a disadvantage forever, yet still made the final 2 banks for the win when Shane was forced to open up 3 spotted balls.

The play in set 2 was quite ragged, and it took 2 hours for the 4 games. The shooter made more than 1 bank in a row only 5 times.
DogsPlaying Pool said:
Why on earth would Shane be calling a 4 rail bank on essentially a spot shot and then pick up the cue ball like that?
realkingcobra said:
Because John, right after Shane picked up the 7 ball out of the corner pocket...to spot the ball, John came up to the table with the balls he'd scored with and placed them on the table...in the confusion, Shane thought he'd won because of that...so he then picked up the cue ball as Ken came to the table with the rest of the balls...only to discover that...he'd been forfeited because he'd picked up the cue ball, but only AFTER John had brought his 4 balls to the table and placed them on the table......hmmmm
sjm said:
I sat ringside for this one and let me confirm what I saw and give you my interpretation of what happened.

First of all, I heard Shane call four rails shooting from the kitchen at a ball that was on or near the spot during the second set with Morra leading 1-0. When Shane made that ball two rails, he raked the cue ball as if he'd won the rack. Morra then, quite correctly, commented that the call had been four rails and not two. Referee Ken Schuman asked Shane whether he had called the shot four rails and Shane said yes. As the balls had been raked by Shane, the rack was correctly awarded to Morra. Ken showed a firm grasp of the rules that applied to the situation and Shane, knowing he had erred, did not complain and, in my opinion, exhibited a high level of professionalism in moving on to the next rack. Shane continued to fight hard and pulled to within 2-1 quickly. He then led 4 balls to 3 in the next rack when a long bank on the four ball appeared to roll off on him, denying him a double hill score. Subsequently, a couple of scratches by Shane played Morra back into the rack, and Morra made a couple of phenomenal shots to get out of the rack and win the title.

Morra showed a very high gear in the banks event from beginning to end and was a worthy champion.

Shane's runnerup finish, I suspect, will put him in prime position to defend his all-around title here at the Derby, so his fine effort may well go to good use.

It was John Morra's day, and all I can say is well played, John!
Things happened so quick and I really wasn't trying to memorize everything but I think the TD brought the balls over and dumped them on the table, not Morra, but I could be wrong.

SVB definitely pretended the game was over though and then admitted he was wrong.

Dennis
 

4Point

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Not only was I ringside but I spoke to Shane directly the very next afternoon about this incident and I can unequivocally say that Dennis is spot on with not only his recreation of the event but his interpretation of the proceedings. To be clear, Shane ultimately admitted to calling the 4 railer - this was his intention and he hit it with enough speed to make that exact bank. I will attempt to point out any of my own assumptions in this message but let me reiterate - Shane told me & 2 other individuals, including Kenny Brisbon, that he called the 4 railer and that it "happened so fast" and it was out of "frustration" - all said with a wry smile. IMO, his demeanor, mannerisms & tone of voice did not convey any semblence of contrition. Secondly, I spoke to Brian Gregg in the hall a few mintues after the dispute/controversy and he stated that with the all things considered (table layout/score/speed of the shot/angle hit/etc.), Shane was playing the 4 railer. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Brian could not have been a more classy & personable guy. He did make a point to say that he has never known Shane to be dishonest and that the gravity of the moment may have clouded his judgment. Lastly, Shane took immediate 'credit' for the 2 rail shot...period! If Morra wasn't as astute/savvy as he obviously is, that shot would have been unconstested with the game incorrectly awarded to Shane. A shake of the head, lifting of the arms to quiet the crowd, or simply grabbing the pocketed ball (which was directly under him) and respotting it would have clarified his intentions to the crowd very quickly. I used to do it with my opponents from time to time, waving off a shot sort of thing, until I became a fully compliant bank player and simply tap the pocket and call out my shots prior to each fire.

-David

P.S. My apologies John, I left before I could purchase a dvd from ya...I will look in to it shortly and pray for an autographed copy to arrive! :)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Not only was I ringside but I spoke to Shane directly the very next afternoon about this incident and I can unequivocally say that Dennis is spot on with not only his recreation of the event but his interpretation of the proceedings.
-David
4Point,

Thanks for the confirmation, memory plays tricks when you see something only once.

P.S. No bank-pool player, living or dead would've banked that ball two-rails.

Dennis
 

Big Jim

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svb

svb

I saw it, i was in the vip section. I concluded that Shane must have been just tired and became confused? I saw him get the balls ready to rack and start a new game when Morra objected. THen the referee declared loss of game for svb.
I was shocked by it all, had never seen anything like this in all 14 derby city classics i have participated in. Who knows what he was thinking?
 

Cary

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JB,

SVB didn't admit it right away and even if he had then what he admitted to was cheating, no more, no less.

He didn't "have a moment" either. I think he heard the audience applauding and figured "maybe I'll take a shot" and decided to act like he had won the game.

I would've DQ'ed him from the match, the tournament and barred him from the building if he had done that in a tourney I was running.

To be clear, SVB played the ball four-rails but then tried to take credit for it when it went two-rails. That is cheating, no more, no less.

Dennis
So you think Shane should have called it on himself? :rolleyes::D
 

Jimmy B

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I saw it, i was in the vip section. I concluded that Shane must have been just tired and became confused? I saw him get the balls ready to rack and start a new game when Morra objected. THen the referee declared loss of game for svb.
I was shocked by it all, had never seen anything like this in all 14 derby city classics i have participated in. Who knows what he was thinking?

I wasn't shocked but I was certainly amused and entertained that night. I still say he had a moment, which I mean a momentary lapse of morals and good judgment. I think Dennis had it just right. I just disagree on how it should be handled. I thought it was handled appropriately and Dennis said he would have disqualified Shane from the entire tournament and ejected him from the premises, which I totally disagree with. If he had broke in the guys room and stole his cues or was discovered loading the guys drink with scopolamine, then I would take that action, but to me it was a heat of the battle indescetion. Of course I am very very lenient towards people and even more so with pool players and working girls and junkies. How did even think for a moment he could take that game if he called Four. I think that he thought the game was over if a ref dumps the balls on the table. We always played if you roll balls down table before you are out, then you blow the game......
 

Cowboy Dennis

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So you think Shane should have called it on himself? :rolleyes::D
I think his opponent in the chair should watch him closely for the rest of his illustrious career now that he is an admitted liar & cheat.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I think Dennis had it just right. I just disagree on how it should be handled. I thought it was handled appropriately and Dennis said he would have disqualified Shane from the entire tournament and ejected him from the premises, which I totally disagree with.
I said "I would've DQ'ed him from the match, the tournament and barred him from the building if he had done that in a tourney I was running."

He is a liar & cheat and I do not tolerate either very well, not in a poolroom or anywhere else.

The irony is that nobody except the 13 people who saw the match will ever know that it happened. A few people here and on the All-Zaniness site mentioned it but it's probably on page 10 over there by now. Most people seem to want to make excuses for him instead of calling it what it is.

Dennis
 

John Brumback

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Lol

Lol

And I should call fouls on myself.Yeah right,LOL That Is so funny,I can't quit laughing.John B.

PS: I think I said something about making sure to call the pocket.Wonder why I brought that up????.I can't for the life of me think why I brought that up.hmmm.:rolleyes:
 

Cowboy Dennis

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And I should call fouls on myself.Yeah right,LOL That Is so funny,I can't quit laughing.John B.

PS: I think I said something about making sure to call the pocket.Wonder why I brought that up????.I can't for the life of me think why I brought that up.hmmm.:rolleyes:
John,

As you & I suggested to everyone in the other thread, the opponent in the chair was alert, for the most part, and questioned SVB's shot. I don't think the TD knew where SVB was playing the ball and it never crossed his mind that SVB was cheating in front of everyone there. I think that when the ball went two-rails with such authority he just assumed that SVB played it there.

I also think that Morra, for a few seconds, didn't allow it to enter his mind that SVB was cheating and about to steal a game but he did question it at last.

I'll say it again: no bank pool player in life would shoot that ball 2-rails from that spot.

SVB is a dishonest poolplayer and he tried to cheat Morra out of a game in front of an audience and a TD. I don't care if he was "tired", I don't care if "he had a moment", I don't care why he did it. He's a liar & a cheater but now he's being touted as the classy, decent, American poolplayer who will represent the sport with his character & talent.

He fooled the TD, the audience and probably many who were watching online, including me, but he didn't fool Morra.

To be clear, if Morra hadn't called the shot into question SVB would've continued racking for the next game and then broke. Maybe he'd be the only winner of all three disciplines at the D.C.C..

SVB is a loser. It's a shame there are so many like him in this game of ours.

Dennis
 

Ktown

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Someone who is a member there should let these idiots know that SVB is a cheat who got caught. The TD & Morra did not make any mistakes that weren't induced by SVB acting like he'd won the game and starting to rack the balls.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=261494

Dennis
I am a member there but I figure I will just respond here. Maybe I am just a "noob" here, but you come off as a real self righteous person who enjoys throwing rocks.

He F'd up, royally. He embarrassed himself by being caught in a situation that warranted a split second response and he made a poor choice. He very obviously acted irresponsibly but that is not indicative of the way he has conducted himself in the past. I am not an SVB fanboy but I have been around this game, and the people who play it, long enough to know that crucifying him for this is outlandish. He had a lapse in judgement and I am positive he knows the gravity of that and it is a lesson he will carry with him.

BTW- How is the view from that crystal mansion on the hill?
 
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NH Steve

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Another odd thing reportedly happened during a One Pocket match. I did not see it, but several people approached me immediately after it happened -- I think because they know I have been involved with the rules for One Pocket.

Anyway, while Earl Strickland was playing Darren Appleton, Earl decided an object ball needed to be tapped with another ball to ensure it was properly frozen to another ball, and Earl picked up the cue ball -- in the middle of the game -- to tap the ball in place. This was not a ball-in-hand situation either -- the cue ball was live. He just put it back (approximately, presumably), when he was satisfied with the spotted ball.

Darren let it slide completely. My own opinion would be that if it was Earl's turn to shoot, that would be a foul, and it would be Darren's shot and a one ball penalty. But if it was Darren's shot at the time, you might have to forfeit that game to Darren? I don't know...

What do you all think of that?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I am a member there but I figure I will just respond here. Maybe I am just a "noob" here, but you come off as a real self righteous person who enjoys throwing rocks.

He F'd up, royally. He embarrassed himself by being caught in a situation that warranted a split second response and he made a poor choice. He very obviously acted irresponsibly but that is not indicative of the way he has conducted himself in the past. I am not an SVB fanboy but I have been around this game, and the people who play it, long enough to know that crucifying him for this is outlandish. He had a lapse in judgement and I am positive he knows the gravity of that and it is a lesson he will carry with him.

BTW- How is the view from that crystal mansion on the hill?
Ktown,

If pointing out a player's dishonesty is me being "self-righteous" then you call it what you want. I can see your mansion fine from my vantage too.

SVB did not get caught in a situation that warranted a split second response, the response to pocketing a ball in the wrong pocket is to spot it up and go sit down. I'm sure he's done that thousands of times in life but this time he didn't. He didn't have a "lapse in judgement" either, people act according to their character, this is his. How many times do you think he's cheated people in his life without getting caught? Do you think this is the first time?

Criticizing me doesn't take away what he did, you do come off as a fanboy when you do that and make excuses for him. He's not a child.

P.S. You used many words to avoid calling him a cheater but it stands out nonetheless. That is what he is.

Dennis
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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Another odd thing reportedly happened during a One Pocket match. I did not see it, but several people approached me immediately after it happened -- I think because they know I have been involved with the rules for One Pocket.

Anyway, while Earl Strickland was playing Darren Appleton, Earl decided an object ball needed to be tapped with another ball to ensure it was properly frozen to another ball, and Earl picked up the cue ball -- in the middle of the game -- to tap the ball in place. This was not a ball-in-hand situation either -- the cue ball was live. He just put it back (approximately, presumably), when he was satisfied with the spotted ball.

Darren let it slide completely. My own opinion would be that if it was Earl's turn to shoot, that would be a foul, and it would be Darren's shot and a one ball penalty. But if it was Darren's shot at the time, you might have to forfeit that game to Darren? I don't know...

What do you all think of that?
I did that once:eek:. I was playing "Chief" from the Rack $10 one-pocket on a snooker table. I was spotting a ball and tried to make it straight for him so I picked up the cueball and tapped the ball with it. I realized what I was doing too late. We agreed that I should spot one up and replace the cueball on the table. When you're playing through the night and into the early morning hours your mind doesn't always work right:).

P.S. With the exception of Mrs. Red, Chief was the only person who always called Cornbread "Bill".

Dennis
 

Ktown

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You used many words to avoid calling him a cheater but it stands out nonetheless. That is what he is.
You are correct, he did make an attempt to cheat. It was foolish and should never have happened. Agreed.

You seem to want to label the kid as a thief and act as if he should be blacklisted, let's tar and feather the varmint while we are at it. I am in no way saying he was right, I just find it hard to believe that you have lived your life free of indiscretion. If that is the case, there will surely be a church with your name on the door opening soon.

I have had an error or two in judgment in my time but those situations helped me, they do not define me. I have never heard of anything like this about him in the past and I would be surprised if I do in the future. If this happens again then I will be the first in line to say you were correct in your assessment of his character, but to ostracize him for one moment of stupidity is a little far-fetched IMO.

John 8:7
 
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