5x10 vs 4.5 x 9

[CaliRed]

hehe.... wow !! I got a PM of someone else who did a edit... they took the time to do it, so here it is!! Thanks!

Mexican Johnny played these three games, and could win even over anyone at, bank pool, One pocket, and Nine ball. And If you put Bugs in there with Cannonball Lefty, and Johnny, it would be Bugs giving up a ball in banks and One pocket to both players. But he did not have to win. And if Bugs would play them Nine ball, Johnny and Lefty would both win. On a bar table Johnny would win. One-handed in all three games. On a 5 x10 Johnny and lefty would win getting a ball. In Nine ball it would be Lefty and Johnny. Johnny and Lefty on a 5 x10, again it would be a coin toss in all three games. And Freddy would play anybody banks and One pocket on a 5 x 10. He would have been very hard too beat. Like I said before, Freddy was the best white banker in Chicago. But most players that came would play Nine ball and One pocket. Nine ball was the weakest game in Chicago.

Johnny might be number one in beating the most people playing pool then any other player in life. And he played real good one-handed and on a bar table. But out of the three players, Bugs was the better bank pool player, and the better One pocket player. Canadian Pete was right behind these players. Pete was the better nine ball player. Of course I don't want to leave out Chicago Young Blood (Javenly Washington) he was great in all three games.

With all the great bankers they had in Chicago, I have never seen anything like it anywhere else. If someone would come to Chicago to play banks they could have won a lot of money. It was the best bank pool action in the whole country. In One pocket they could have gotten plenty of action too. With Bugs, Cannonball, Mexican Johnny, Canadian Pete, Cincinnati Clem, Pony (Isadore Rosen), and even Joe Procita. And their were others.

Bensingers was the most feared pool room in the country. Freddy I don't know if you knew. But I was the person that took out the two old 4 ½ x 9's and put in Gold Crowns. I even put eight of them in the back when I knocked out the back wall. But that was around the time you had the Four Bees Club. And then Bob Siegal took over Bensingers and destroyed our home. That was the end of a great pool room. But we spent our time and youth in there. And we had lots of great memories and characters. And nobody can take your memories. Not even Sugar Shack.

Those benches were for your dreams and sleeping under the pool table. You liked that better then your own home. And if they would have been open all night. I don't think you would have ever gone home because Bensingers was your home. And I know you loved that real pool room atmosphere, and that would be hard to duplicate. Have some great dreams about yesteryear. It was your life. And nobody can take that away from you.

 

[lll]

ok how bout some of you other guys??? no comments of the nuances of playing on the different tables??

 

[NH Steve]

next question...

next question...

I found it confusing that Artie seemed to be saying the smarter player would come out stronger in the long run on 5x10's, yet, the "moves" were stronger on a 4-1/2 x 9. I assume that what he meant about the 4-1/2 x 9's is that with the extra traffic, and the ever-present threat of running eight & out with strong players, the 4-1/2 x 9's meant each trap might have a bigger impact on the overall outcome of a game than it would on the 5 x 10's -- because nobody was likely to run so many balls on the 5 x 10. Also, maybe because the larger tables were so much tougher, you had outlet safeties available -- i.e. leaving long -- that you wouldn't necessarily get away with on a 4-1/2 x 9.

My next question is, does most of what makes a big difference on a 5x10 translate to an extra tough 4-1/2 x 9, too? Obviously, the degree of ball traffic is different on different table sizes, but the factor of toughness from a distance might work out about the same??

PS, I have zero experience on a 5 x 10, but I have played on tough tables at times.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I found it confusing that Artie seemed to be saying the smarter player would come out stronger in the long run on 5x10's, yet, the "moves" were stronger on a 4-1/2 x 9. I assume that what he meant about the 4-1/2 x 9's is that with the extra traffic, and the ever-present threat of running eight & out with strong players, the 4-1/2 x 9's meant each trap might have a bigger impact on the overall outcome of a game than it would on the 5 x 10's -- because nobody was likely to run so many balls on the 5 x 10. Also, maybe because the larger tables were so much tougher, you had outlet safeties available -- i.e. leaving long -- that you wouldn't necessarily get away with on a 4-1/2 x 9.

My next question is, does most of what makes a big difference on a 5x10 translate to an extra tough 4-1/2 x 9, too? Obviously, the degree of ball traffic is different on different table sizes, but the factor of toughness from a distance might work out about the same??

PS, I have zero experience on a 5 x 10, but I have played on tough tables at times.

Good question Steve...Always having loved them, I don't remember playing on any particularly tough (tight pocketed) 5 x 10's back then..most were buckets.
In my humble opinion,...Horsing the cue ball around, with the old balls, and the slow cloth, plus the increased distance...was usually too much of an added challenge, for most of the 9' players... It required a finely tuned, powerful stroke.

Much like 1P on a 5 X 10 snooker table, all other skills being equal, the guy who comes off the end rail best will usually prevail.

As for comparison of the two sizes, it has been only fairlry recently, that tight pockets have become the norm. (for one pocket)...I would say that a tight 5 x 10, with modern balls and cloth, would just multiply all the differences you alluded to. Unfortunately...Once again, we will probably never know for sure, will we ? And thats a shame..It would open up a whole new avenue, for matching up.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I found it confusing that Artie seemed to be saying the smarter player would come out stronger in the long run on 5x10's, yet, the "moves" were stronger on a 4-1/2 x 9. I assume that what he meant about the 4-1/2 x 9's is that with the extra traffic, and the ever-present threat of running eight & out with strong players, the 4-1/2 x 9's meant each trap might have a bigger impact on the overall outcome of a game than it would on the 5 x 10's -- because nobody was likely to run so many balls on the 5 x 10. Also, maybe because the larger tables were so much tougher, you had outlet safeties available -- i.e. leaving long -- that you wouldn't necessarily get away with on a 4-1/2 x 9.

My next question is, does most of what makes a big difference on a 5x10 translate to an extra tough 4-1/2 x 9, too? Obviously, the degree of ball traffic is different on different table sizes, but the factor of toughness from a distance might work out about the same??

PS, I have zero experience on a 5 x 10, but I have played on tough tables at times.

The smarter player will win on a 5 by 10 because he will leave is opponent longer shots and if you take the same shot same position the shot that is furthest away wil make the mistake more. Because its a tougher shot. And in the end game a 5 by 10 makes a bigger difference. And the further away you are the hader it is to get the ball out off the pocket if it is laying tough.And all the banks and shoots will be further and longer. And players will shoot at a certain shot on a 4 and a half by nine but not on a five by ten. And a five to nothing lead on a 5 by ten is worth more then a 5 to nothing lead on a 4 and a half by nine. And we know the smarter player will get less tough shots then the other player. And Thier is less room on a 4and a half by nine so its harder to get out of the trap. And a mistake on a 4 and a half by nine will but you closer to the balls. And all the shoots will be easier to run 8 and out. And the less room to move the harder it will be to get away. LIke in a fight when te fighter is in the corner and its a little ring. Thier isnt too many places he can go too. Were in a big ring the smarter fighter has more room to monover. And the buncher wants lttle room so he doesnt have to chase him and can knock him out. The mones mean more on a 4and a half by nine because a mistake will cost you more. And on a 5 by ten he might get away with the mistake were on a 4 and a half by nine he will not get away with it. So what I said the smarter player will win on a 5 by ten more. Because the other player will make more mistakes on a 5 by ten Because off the dissrance. And if you are shooting the game ball ahd te ball is close too your whole in a tough position. It is easier for the player to make a mistake. And the reason the moves are worth more if he is traped. Because if he makes a mistake it is easier to run out. Thats why the moves mean more on a 4 and a half by nine. But the better mover as the edge no matter were e plays. Because he will make less mistakes. And put his opponent in tougher positions then his opponent will put him in. And thats if thier shooting ability is very close or equal. Like equal nine ball players. But one off them is a better mover he should win. And we even played with clay balls and Ivory balls and that all makes a difference. And we had some off the toughest 5 by Tens with 4 inch pockets and real tight railss . THe were convertated snooker tables. And we had sour pockets with 5 and a half inches. with soft eails and you could miss the pocket real bad and the ball would still go in because off the soft rubber and te balls would not hang up. We even ad 5 by tens with reversrails. Were if you banked the ball hard and hit it bad. It would go twords your opponents pocket. And that was very hard for people to figure out. The couldnt figure out what happend. And one last thing. It makes sense that the person that shoots off the end rail the bet.and makkes the most shots should prevale. Excepte for on minor retail. The player tat will be shooting off the end rail the most will not Prevail and that will be the shooter. Because the mover will have him on the end rail more tines then the shooter will have him. And a real good mover might not even soot from tat position. Were the shooter will shoot. And a toug five by ten end rail is a night mare. And again is you are a great mover you should no get in that position. Because you should be controling the game and the balls. And for your opponent to put you on the end rail . You have to give him a shot to put you thier. And if you have a ball in front off your pocket. Makes it even tougher. Let him shoot all the shots he wants if he can get one or two balls and if he misses and you can get 5 or 6 . Even if he is a little favorite .to make the ball he will finish second. unless its a very shortgame. Then the percentages dont have a chance to show up. A longer session is always better for the smardest player and mover. And a short session is always better for the better shooters and te power shots and the aggressive player. A mover needs a longer session so the percentages show up. And when I am playing ok and I make te shots I am soupose too make. My opponent willbe the one shooting off the end rail. But if you cant make a ball and do what you want to do wit the cue ball and object balls. It does not matter because if someone cant make shots and te other player can. Te player who doesnt make his shots cant win and has no chance no matter what he does. When its your shot and you have a fairly easy shoot you have execute that shot. And if the balls are open you have to run 4 or five balls. And if you cant do that. I sugjest you dont play. And practice tell you can do that. And ten play. Because without being able to make balls. You cannot win. And the smarter player will give you a lot more harder shots to shoot on a 5 by 10 then a 4 and a half by nine. And a good trap on a 4 and a half by nine is worth more then on a 5 by 10. And if you play the same player. I would rather play him on a 5 by 10 then a 4 and a half by nine. Because off his fire power. And I want to weeken him as much as I can. And her is one more. If te balls role bad for me its als better for me on a 5 by 10. Because its still harder for him on a big table ten a small table. And the size off the table helps the mover more. Because a great mover runs the balls good weather its a 5 by 10 or a 4 and a half by nine. Because he has a plan and a pattern. And his only long shot figures to be his first. Because once a great mover gets control off the balls and game. He will not give up that position and keep you on deffense. And you have to reviers tat even if you are playing a champion. Because if you dont reverse it you cannot win.Have some great pool dreams. Thinking is the only way to improve once you have reached your potential. THinking is the key to everything. And if you can do that you will be ok.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Back to the drawing board boys & girls. He don't care & never has.

 

[androd]

Back to the drawing board boys & girls. He don't care & never has.

Just as I was thinking some of you guys might get $500.00 an hour for typing lessons.
Rod.

 

[CaliRed]

The smarter player will win on a 5 by 10 because he will leave is opponent longer shots and if you take the same shot same position the shot that is furthest away wil make the mistake more. Because its a tougher shot. And in the end game a 5 by 10 makes a bigger difference. And the further away you are the hader it is to get the ball out off the pocket if it is laying tough.And all the banks and shoots will be further and longer. And players will shoot at a certain shot on a 4 and a half by nine but not on a five by ten. And a five to nothing lead on a 5 by ten is worth more then a 5 to nothing lead on a 4 and a half by nine. And we know the smarter player will get less tough shots then the other player. And Thier is less room on a 4and a half by nine so its harder to get out of the trap. And a mistake on a 4 and a half by nine will but you closer to the balls. And all the shoots will be easier to run 8 and out. And the less room to move the harder it will be to get away. LIke in a fight when te fighter is in the corner and its a little ring. Thier isnt too many places he can go too. Were in a big ring the smarter fighter has more room to monover. And the buncher wants lttle room so he doesnt have to chase him and can knock him out. The mones mean more on a 4and a half by nine because a mistake will cost you more. And on a 5 by ten he might get away with the mistake were on a 4 and a half by nine he will not get away with it. So what I said the smarter player will win on a 5 by ten more. Because the other player will make more mistakes on a 5 by ten Because off the dissrance. And if you are shooting the game ball ahd te ball is close too your whole in a tough position. It is easier for the player to make a mistake. And the reason the moves are worth more if he is traped. Because if he makes a mistake it is easier to run out. Thats why the moves mean more on a 4 and a half by nine. But the better mover as the edge no matter were e plays. Because he will make less mistakes. And put his opponent in tougher positions then his opponent will put him in. And thats if thier shooting ability is very close or equal. Like equal nine ball players. But one off them is a better mover he should win. And we even played with clay balls and Ivory balls and that all makes a difference. And we had some off the toughest 5 by Tens with 4 inch pockets and real tight railss . THe were convertated snooker tables. And we had sour pockets with 5 and a half inches. with soft eails and you could miss the pocket real bad and the ball would still go in because off the soft rubber and te balls would not hang up. We even ad 5 by tens with reversrails. Were if you banked the ball hard and hit it bad. It would go twords your opponents pocket. And that was very hard for people to figure out. The couldnt figure out what happend. And one last thing. It makes sense that the person that shoots off the end rail the bet.and makkes the most shots should prevale. Excepte for on minor retail. The player tat will be shooting off the end rail the most will not Prevail and that will be the shooter. Because the mover will have him on the end rail more tines then the shooter will have him. And a real good mover might not even soot from tat position. Were the shooter will shoot. And a toug five by ten end rail is a night mare. And again is you are a great mover you should no get in that position. Because you should be controling the game and the balls. And for your opponent to put you on the end rail . You have to give him a shot to put you thier. And if you have a ball in front off your pocket. Makes it even tougher. Let him shoot all the shots he wants if he can get one or two balls and if he misses and you can get 5 or 6 . Even if he is a little favorite .to make the ball he will finish second. unless its a very shortgame. Then the percentages dont have a chance to show up. A longer session is always better for the smardest player and mover. And a short session is always better for the better shooters and te power shots and the aggressive player. A mover needs a longer session so the percentages show up. And when I am playing ok and I make te shots I am soupose too make. My opponent willbe the one shooting off the end rail. But if you cant make a ball and do what you want to do wit the cue ball and object balls. It does not matter because if someone cant make shots and te other player can. Te player who doesnt make his shots cant win and has no chance no matter what he does. When its your shot and you have a fairly easy shoot you have execute that shot. And if the balls are open you have to run 4 or five balls. And if you cant do that. I sugjest you dont play. And practice tell you can do that. And ten play. Because without being able to make balls. You cannot win. And the smarter player will give you a lot more harder shots to shoot on a 5 by 10 then a 4 and a half by nine. And a good trap on a 4 and a half by nine is worth more then on a 5 by 10. And if you play the same player. I would rather play him on a 5 by 10 then a 4 and a half by nine. Because off his fire power. And I want to weeken him as much as I can. And her is one more. If te balls role bad for me its als better for me on a 5 by 10. Because its still harder for him on a big table ten a small table. And the size off the table helps the mover more. Because a great mover runs the balls good weather its a 5 by 10 or a 4 and a half by nine. Because he has a plan and a pattern. And his only long shot figures to be his first. Because once a great mover gets control off the balls and game. He will not give up that position and keep you on deffense. And you have to reviers tat even if you are playing a champion. Because if you dont reverse it you cannot win.Have some great pool dreams. Thinking is the only way to improve once you have reached your potential. THinking is the key to everything. And if you can do that you will be ok.

I did my best to try and help......

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Just as I was thinking some of you guys might get $500.00 an hour for typing lessons.
Rod.

Rod, you are cornfused, that was for one-pocket lessons. That's my minimum rate though, Ghosty-type shots go for $1000 an hour .

Cowboy "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him hit enter" Dennis