3 day rule discussion/moving on!

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

'68 BCA definition - Frozen Cue Ball - this definition has long since been forgotten, lost to history. Except Dr. Dave asked me to go over his glossary and I offered this up to him plus others, so he has save it!

Frozen Cue Ball: when the cue ball is frozen to an object ball.

When executing a Frozen Cue Ball Shot it is legal to stroke 'directly' towards the object ball. It is illegal to lay the cue tip against the cue ball, pause the stroke, and then stroke through (push stroke).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZEtyn7FmDxdS2ajt5 click on videos after they come up to enlarge and get sound! Do this on all videos

Note: this is the one and only way a Frozen Cue Ball Shot can be illegally stroked.

When a Frozen Cue Ball Shot is perpendicular or angled to the rail and has the object ball frozen to the rail ( Paul Newman's Hustler Bank Shot, for example) then it can be stroked directly towards the ob providing the stroke is unimpeded and thus is allowed to follow through (not jammed up against the cue ball). It is illegal to lay the cue tip against the cue ball and then stroke through even though it might be one continuous stroke, for this is a push foul.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mIFr_7LuGDdnRqa3lxN09HYWM/view?usp=drivesdk
Paul Newman's Hustler Shot! The complete thread is on pg. 3 bank forum.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mIFr_7LuGDcTNBb185Y0NjLVk/view?usp=drivesdk
This slow motion shows how the stroke is one continuous unimpeded legal stroke. If the stroke jammed against the cb and did not follow through then it would be a foul.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T3Wt6iLrso3Pmdbc8 - if you stop the video it will show the stroke is impeded, thus illegally stroked.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/myCnJDLEDTikyMHX6 - more illegally stroked shots

The question is: do we want this in the main rules listed under 8. Frozen? Yes or No.

IMO, it is no brainer, for no governing pool body ever explains how a Frozen Cue Ball Shot can be illegally stroked, so why would you not want it in there? Plus we sure do not want to loose the ability to play the Paul Newman Hustler Shot! And yes, it could happen for several years back I got into it with the head national ref. who said this shot was illegal. That is why I did a whole forum thread on it in slow motion to prove it can be legally stroked. To Save The Shot!

Note: definition Push Stroke, is another long forgotten BCA term.
Push Stroke: when the cue ball stays in contact with the cue ball as the stroke goes forward.

I would like to see Frozen Cue Ball Shot plus Push Stroke be instilled in the glossary of terms. Whitey

 

[Scrzbill]

Here it is only March, and I'm ready to nominate an entry for Funniest Post of the Year.

(I can't remember... was it Kipling's Jungle Book where the elephant called the giraffe a lard ass?)

Same applies to you, rude, antagonistic, confrontational and I might add, harassment.

 

[Island Drive]

May 24, 2009

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[12squared]

Isn't there a 3 day rule on posts about a 3 day rule? Seriously, thanks for putting in the time to hopefully get it right. You guys are the best.

 

[lll]

Hey guys, I would not get to work up over all this, for very little is going to change in the rules. Some clarifications in the main rules, but when you see italicized statement it is just an alternative / house rule, so it essentially carries no meaning and has no affect on the main rules whatsoever!
Such as these below:
Close proximity shots often come up in One Pocket with no referee available. When shooting towards an object ball(s) in close proximity to the cue ball, it is a double hit foul if the cue ball goes immediately forward past the contact point or forward through the tangent line, without sufficient cue ball reaction time for english to take effect. With advanced skill, it is possible to play these shots without committing a foul. Alternatively, players may agree that shooting away at a sufficiently thin angle reasonably avoids a double hit. A ball declared frozen to the cue ball may be legally stroked through.

Whole ball placed btl is alternative,
BIH-BTL illegal placement whereas the opponent can notify the shooter when the cb is not legally placed or ob is not playable, is an alternative
Rack your own - score - re-rack is an alternative
Offending player places or removes their coins, I believe is an alternative guide line.

Not contacting the rack on the break is an opponent's option to accept the table as is or make the breaker -re-break -1pt foul. I believe this made the main rules
*** Trapping/wedging the cb has been beefed up, main rules

That is about it, thus far, and we are getting close to rapping this up. So relax guys, nothing earth shaking go on.
I have some points I could bring up about Frozen shots.

When a cb is frozen to an ob ball, it is allowed to legally stroke towards the ob, but the stroke has to be one continuous stroke. If the cue is laid against the cb - stroke paused - and then stroked through, it is then a push stroke foul. This is the one and only way to foul stroke a cb frozen to an ob.

Now in the same scenario that has the ob frozen to the cushion, such as in Paul Newman's hustler shot then the same foul criteria applies. You can not lay the cue tip against the cb and push through, and when stroking through the cb, the stroke can not be impeded, meaning jams up against the cb.

Two balls frozen to the cb. I did a whole thread on this with videos, but got little to no response. I doubt if it will even make the alternative list.

Next topic will probably be about the cb frozen to the ob. Whitey

its a good addition
even if its not official
maybe some day

 

[NH Steve]

I like to avoid putting things in our game rules that belong in the general rules of pool — especially if they are already in the general rules of pool — because they apply to all pool not just one pocket.

And I certainly do not want to add a section to our rules just to accommodate one esoteric shot.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I would request that no more comments be made on this thread. I am not going to be bringing up any more rules for discussion, for our 3 man rule committee is rapping up, and not much more to discuss anyway. We'll just wait to see what Steve finalizes.
Thanks for the comments! Whitey

 

[NH Steve]

darmoose, when we were talking about more or less than a half-ball hit, I see where we were misunderstanding each other now. When I said more that a half ball I actually meant more angle -- meaning a thinner hit. That's what you were saying when you said less than a half ball. It reminds me of how people refer to the head and the foot of the pool table -- sometimes it seems to go both ways lol. But anyway, we both meant the same thing -- a thinner than half ball contact, i.e a thinner cut.

 

[Tennessee Joe6]

Now what lol? Back to the same wording, but its a foul if the OB goes half a ball forward?? I tried the paper trick and saw the same thing you did. However it could be that the video was shot at a very slight angle that only makes it appear like that.

Or the cue ball was slightly heavier than the object ball....