3 day rule discussion/moving on!

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

This is going to be a thread to discuss OP.org official rules. A rule for discussion will be posted approx. every three days. Please stay on subject, and not get waylaid onto other unrelated areas. You can go to Home under 'The Game' then to Official Rules to follow along.
Your input is welcomed! All final decisions as to have this be a part of the official rules or not, will be determined by Steve.

#1. Game Procedure: this would be included into 3. Game Continuing.

It is very important that within your comments that you state: yes or no if you would like to see this become part of the official rules.

-------------------------------------------------------
3.3 Game Procedure: At the end of each scoring inning, only the scoring player can place the scored balls in their collective area, or spot a ball and remove a coin for a ball owed. If a foul occurs only the offending player can spot a ball or place a coin for an owed ball. The outgoing player will always spot balls for the incoming player. A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area. A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot. A player can only approach the table to make a declaration or to discuss; nearly frozen / frozen balls, forgotten balls or coins, or referring to a referee. A player down on the shot can not be interrupted. It is improper etiquette to place your hand in a pocket to catch a ball. It is considered proper etiquette to remove your chalk from the table. A break from play is only allowed during your inning.
---------------------------------------------------
Comment: OP has so much interaction between players in terms of the handling of balls & coins to keep track of the score, but as we know in our current set of rules there is at this point no guidance as to the proper player's procedure. Would you like to see this added? Yes or No.

Further comments on any other suggestive points not listed in 3.3 welcomed. I hope that many of our members decide to participate.
thanks, Whitey

 

[lll]

i dont think it is improper etiquette to leave your chalk on the table as it is in 3 cushion
but i do think it is improper etiquette to leave your chalk
chalk side down on the table....

 

[gulfportdoc]

You make a valid point, Whitey. But sometimes rules can drift into being too picky or fussy. It might be well to state that the non shooting player should stay seated when practicable, or at least be in an unobtrusive area. But it seems to me that if there are a bunch of rules about who may touch the equipment, and when, it's a little too scrupulous. If a player has a dozen procedural things to remember it might be a little burdensome.

 

[Island Drive]

3.3 Game Procedure: At the end of each scoring inning, only the scoring player can place the scored balls in their collective area YES, or spot a ball and remove a coin YES for a ball owed. If a foul occurs only the offending player can spot a ball or replace a coin YES for an owed ball. The outgoing player will always spot balls for the incoming player. A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area. A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot. YES A player can only approach the table before the shot and sometimes after the shot to make a declaration or to discuss; nearly frozen / frozen balls, forgotten balls or coins, or referring to a referee. A player down on the shot can not be interrupted 99% of the time YES. It is improper etiquette to place your hand in a pocket to catch a ball YES. It is considered proper etiquette to remove your chalk from the table. A break from play is only allowed during your inning 99% of the time YES.





One thing I've learned in match play, to avoid any confrontation. When scoring/moving a penny under the rail, I Always announce ''coming up one'' BEFORE I move the coin. When I touch anything on the table, I let em know and talk first.

I never touch it, till my opponent looks me in the eye for confirmation

If I were ever to touch his scoring or balls pocketed, I always look at him, talk and verify what's going on and what the score is after the scratch or whatever infraction occurred.

Communication is KEY. If your in a game where this is an ongoing concern, might be better to move on after your match/game is over. I'd also let em know why, if it won't cause a confrontation.

 

[Billy Jackets]

I like all the rules except the chalk rule, but I would follow that rule gladly, to have the others be in place. I vote .............
YES

 

[NH Steve]

This is going to be a thread to discuss OP.org official rules. A rule for discussion will be posted approx. every three days. Please stay on subject, and not get waylaid onto other unrelated areas. You can go to Home under 'The Game' then to Official Rules to follow along.
Your input is welcomed! All final decisions as to have this be a part of the official rules or not, will be determined by Steve.

#1. Game Procedure: this would be included into 3. Game Continuing.

It is very important that within your comments that you state: yes or no if you would like to see this become part of the official rules.

-------------------------------------------------------
3.3 Game Procedure: At the end of each scoring inning, only the scoring player can place the scored balls in their collective area, or spot a ball and remove a coin for a ball owed. If a foul occurs only the offending player can spot a ball or place a coin for an owed ball. The outgoing player will always spot balls for the incoming player. A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area. A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot. A player can only approach the table to make a declaration or to discuss; nearly frozen / frozen balls, forgotten balls or coins, or referring to a referee. A player down on the shot can not be interrupted. It is improper etiquette to place your hand in a pocket to catch a ball. It is considered proper etiquette to remove your chalk from the table. A break from play is only allowed during your inning.
---------------------------------------------------
Comment: OP has so much interaction between players in terms of the handling of balls & coins to keep track of the score, but as we know in our current set of rules there is at this point no guidance as to the proper player's procedure. Would you like to see this added?

Further comments on any other suggestive points not listed in 3.3 welcomed. I hope that many of our members decide to participate.
thanks, Whitey

I don’t see these as belonging in our rules. They may be “rules of etiquette” but that doesn’t mean they belong in game rules.

 

[darmoose]

I don’t see these as belonging in our rules. They may be “rules of etiquette” but that doesn’t mean they belong in game rules.

I agree. When it comes to writing rules "less is more". Rules need to be qualitative and not quantitative. Rules need to be unambiguous and leave nothing (or as little as possible) to subjectivity. Rules need to be exceptionless, if possible. I think rules need to have penalties, or they ain't rules.

JMHO .......

 

[LSJohn]

A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area.

I agree with that and this:

A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot.

I would not include the rest.

 

[catkins]

the neutral ball thing is all good till you get to derby and it takes 10 min for the ball to come out of the table so it is customary to spot a collected ball and move the one that comes out of the table. Other wise I am ok with the rules though agree with Steve that this is not rules specific to one pocket but just politeness at the table

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Well, guys thanks for the great comments, and participating. I have to laugh for I knew the chalk would get the most response. But, recently this etiquette is making a come back in some prestige's tournaments. This for info. the chalk has no ownership once it is left on the table, but it also is not part of the table, so if it falls upon the table and a ball contacts it, it is a foul, and if a ball jumps and contacts the chalk it is a foul. So it is more important than maybe first realized. It is just a curtesy thing. But I respect a player and a pro that removes their chalk. If a player does not know it is proper etiquette to remove your chalk then they will not remove it, it is as simple as that.

As far as Game Procedure; There is only a couple of things to remember, 1. the scoring player; places or removes their own balls in their collective area, and places or removes their own coins for fouls. 2. the outgoing player always spots the balls for the incoming player. 3. a break from play is only allowed on your inning.

Pretty simple, I'd say. Just three sentences now gives the players the knowledge to properly orchestra the game. By the way, spotting the ball for the incoming player is as old as the game of pool itself. I have a hard time realizing that this common knowledge escapes players, well it is not in the rules, so how can we blame the players.

But with that said, I hate watching a poorly orchestrated game of OP. The opponent rushing out of his seat to spot a ball for himself, and even taking it from the other players collective area on a foul. Opponent putting up coins or taking them away from the other player. No thanks! Very amateurish! I mean I absolutely hate it! I hate it when an opponent disrespects the shooter and takes off on a break, even while the guy is at the table shooting. 1 break taken on your inning for each player (both players can go) in a race to 3, might work! A beautiful game tarnished just because the players do not know how to properly interact with the balls and coins. Players getting confused about coins and the score, arguing, no thanks!

I had asked Steve for his prior permission to thread this before hand, but he skipped over my request and responded to another point I made on the same post; time/shot. So I thought it did not matter to him if I did it or not. He now, adamantly does not want this in his rules, so that is that! My next rule discussion would of been time/shot but Steve has related that it also does not belong in the main rules.

So, that is it for this thread, I will not be posting anymore rules to discuss. thanks again guys for deliberating with me! I got a laugh out of the Chalk discussion, I needed that!

I got a funny story, or sad. Bill Stock (bcapl editor) would hardly ever respond to my rule suggestions, and I was sending him high tech billiard discipline rule writings that would advance the rules into the 21st century. But when I sent him an etiquette rule stating a player should remove their chalk from the table, he responded for 3 days. What does that tell you. thanks, guys! Whitey

 

[Island Drive]

Well, guys thanks for the great comments, and participating. I have to laugh for I knew the chalk would get the most response. But, recently this etiquette is making a come back in some prestige's tournaments. This for info. the chalk has no ownership once it is left on the table, but it also is not part of the table, so if it falls upon the table and a ball contacts it, it is a foul, and if a ball jumps and contacts the chalk it is a foul. So it is more important than maybe first realized. It is just a curtesy thing. But I respect a player and a pro that removes their chalk. If a player does not know it is proper etiquette to remove your chalk then they will not remove it, it is as simple as that.
thanks again guys for deliberating with me! I got a laugh out of the Chalk discussion, I needed that!
I got a funny story, or sad. Bill Stock (bcapl editor) would hardly ever respond to my rule suggestions, and I was sending him high tech billiard discipline rule writings that would advance the rules into the 21st century. But when I sent him an etiquette rule stating a player should remove their chalk from the table, he responded for 3 days. What does that tell you. thanks, guys! Whitey

If you don't mark your pocket on a straight in 8 ball you loose the game/maybe/kinda/shoulda/.....Comprendo' . Morning Jeff Sparks....

 

[lll]

steve
i respecfully wish you reconsider your decision on whiteys "rules"
whether you put them in a separate category "one pocket etiquette" or something like that
i do think they would be helpfull since the situations discussed about who spots the balls ...who puts the balls up for fouls etc are somewhat unique to onepocket and these guidelines would help avoid arguments and "funny business"
whether the streamlined or whole version or a modified version
jmho
whiteys streamlined version
1. the scoring player; places or removes their own balls in their collective area, and places or removes their own coins for fouls. 2. the outgoing player always spots the balls for the incoming player. 3. a break from play is only allowed on your inning.
or detailed version
3.3 Game Procedure: At the end of each scoring inning, only the scoring player can place the scored balls in their collective area, or spot a ball and remove a coin for a ball owed. If a foul occurs only the offending player can spot a ball or place a coin for an owed ball. The outgoing player will always spot balls for the incoming player. A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area. A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot. A player can only approach the table to make a declaration or to discuss; nearly frozen / frozen balls, forgotten balls or coins, or referring to a referee. A player down on the shot can not be interrupted. It is improper etiquette to place your hand in a pocket to catch a ball. It is considered proper etiquette to remove your chalk from the table. A break from play is only allowed during your inning.

 

[NH Steve]

steve
i respecfully wish you reconsider your decision on whiteys "rules"
whether you put them in a separate category "one pocket etiquette" or something like that
i do think they would be helpfull since the situations discussed about who spots the balls ...who puts the balls up for fouls etc are somewhat unique to onepocket and these guidelines would help avoid arguments and "funny business"
whether the streamlined or whole version or a modified version
jmho
whiteys streamlined version
1. the scoring player; places or removes their own balls in their collective area, and places or removes their own coins for fouls. 2. the outgoing player always spots the balls for the incoming player. 3. a break from play is only allowed on your inning.
or detailed version
3.3 Game Procedure: At the end of each scoring inning, only the scoring player can place the scored balls in their collective area, or spot a ball and remove a coin for a ball owed. If a foul occurs only the offending player can spot a ball or place a coin for an owed ball. The outgoing player will always spot balls for the incoming player. A neutrally pocketed ball is always spotted vs. spotting a ball from a collected area. A player must remain seated unless play is consistently fast, but then may only stand in an appropriate spot. A player can only approach the table to make a declaration or to discuss; nearly frozen / frozen balls, forgotten balls or coins, or referring to a referee. A player down on the shot can not be interrupted. It is improper etiquette to place your hand in a pocket to catch a ball. It is considered proper etiquette to remove your chalk from the table. A break from play is only allowed during your inning.

I cannot see most of these as "rules" -- but I do see them as good etiquette for sure. I think we would have to be rather careful how/if we include them so they are not somehow interpreted as rules with belligerent opponents expecting to exact a heavy penalty. Trying to over-enforce something relatively insignificant -- quite possibly done without malice just to move the game along -- is just as nitty as breaking any kind of rule of etiquette if you ask me.

We could possible add something like "Recommended etiquette is.... In our alternate comments below the pertinent rules.

 

[sappo]

Sorry but I just have to say that all these topics about who can and who can't spot balls and which ball has to be spotted and the chalk thing etc etc is ridiculous. And this is just the beginning of the proposed process! The games is fine the way it is. We don't need to change anything. This is just a pool game and its been fine for decades, leave it alone. This will be my last post on the subject of Rules. Keith/Sappo

 

[beatle]

okjh

 

[Island Drive]

I don’t see these as belonging in our rules. They may be “rules of etiquette” but that doesn’t mean they belong in game rules.

Etiquette....Might be good thing to bring up, First before the players meeting gets rollin'. Almost like a sermon in it's own way.

Our Philosophy of good sportsmanship and fair play. Something quick, short and too the point, then on to the event itself/rules etc.

To give some that need help, as we know we all do at times.

 

[catkins]

the person who spots balls is I would say a rule that would be an add on to what occurs with slept balls perhaps as they are related. Also I do think it is definitely a rule that if you drop the one ball in the side pocket you don't than spot the 8 ball thinking it is a harder ball to shoot at other wise we are talking more etiquette of pool not of one pocket specifically .

 

[LSJohn]

these guidelines would help avoid arguments and "funny business"

I've never had a problem with any of those things., but I have twice seen controversy about spotting the ball that was actually pocketed in a neutral pocket, and I've seen complaints about opponent standing/moving around during his off-inning. So I'd be OK with addressing those.... otherwise, my vote is fuggedaboudit.

 

[powerball]

I am voting with Doc and Keith... KISS

 

[lll]

for the record
i am of the mindset that onepocket has been around for around 100 years is gaining in popularity with the rules as they are
so if it aint broke dont fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sappo /keith i am on your side
however the rules are there as a reference and usually its less experienced player that go to them since they dont know the rule from memory yet
these "guidelines" would be a good way for new one pocket players to use from the beginning of their journey in the game
most of us do these things anyway because thats how we were raised as kids in the game
except for beatle (just kidding beatle)
jmho
icbw