2019 MOT location ballot

2019 MOT location ballot

  • Bluegrass Billiards, in Philly

    Votes: 22 64.7%
  • Michael's Billiards in Cincinati (Fairfield, OH)

    Votes: 12 35.3%

  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .
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Mkbtank

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2019 MOT location ballot

It looks like we are pretty much ready for a volunteer to collect entry fees and post a sign up list.

Also, we need to lock down goals for what rounds will by done by the end of Friday night, and then again by the end of Saturday night, so that we can finish at a reasonable hour on Sunday. I believe we have worked that out, but I for one need a refresher. I do know, some players will be freed up from tournament play Friday night -- and available for mixing and matching the rest of the weekend with a great group of guys!! :D:D

Is it down to down to 4 players for Sunday or 8?? And is it 24 or 16 by the end of Friday night??


I can collect end post sign-ups if you like.

Also - was it ever settled? I would still be up for round robin if that’s what the majority of guys liked. Steve- there was lots of discussion. Do we put up a poll to get our final answer??
 

NH Steve

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I can collect end post sign-ups if you like.

Also - was it ever settled? I would still be up for round robin if that’s what the majority of guys liked. Steve- there was lots of discussion. Do we put up a poll to get our final answer??
Our default format still is a double elimination race to 3 both sides, with a single race in the finals with the hot seat winner getting the first break (usual alternate break after that).

Do we have a volunteer tournament director for Philly? I forgot to mention that. And thank you Mitch for volunteering to take care of the sign ups and $$ collection.

If a round robin was going to be tried, it would be best to know that ahead of time. And it does impact the room because the green fee would be covering a lot more tournament table time on more tables, reducing the potential table rental income for the host room. They need to know that, because they might want to adjust the green fee, or they might have a stronger opinion than we might presume.

So I could put up a poll but I think we need to tread a little carefully because the round robin format would not be what the room owner is used to or what they are expecting -- essentially tying up 16 tables (or whatever is made available) for Friday and all day/evening Saturday. The room owner for example might want to limit tables in the case of the round robin so they can still have some rental income -- such as, OK you can have 12 tables Friday/Saturday, not 16. If that is the case, we can still do the round robin, but the races and specific format need to fit the available tables if it is not going to be 16 for that reason. With double elimination, the room owner knows by early afternoon Saturday we are starting to free up tables for rental.

It looks like Bluegrass is a big room -- Mitch can you check with the room owner so we know if he would be on board at the very least, and if that would effect the green fees? Thank you!!
 

NH Steve

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Our default format still is a double elimination race to 3 both sides, with a single race in the finals with the hot seat winner getting the first break (usual alternate break after that).

Do we have a volunteer tournament director for Philly? I forgot to mention that. And thank you Mitch for volunteering to take care of the sign ups and $$ collection.

If a round robin was going to be tried, it would be best to know that ahead of time. And it does impact the room because the green fee would be covering a lot more tournament table time on more tables, reducing the potential table rental income for the host room. They need to know that, because they might want to adjust the green fee, or they might have a stronger opinion than we might presume.

So I could put up a poll but I think we need to tread a little carefully because the round robin format would not be what the room owner is used to or what they are expecting -- essentially tying up 16 tables (or whatever is made available) for Friday and all day/evening Saturday. The room owner for example might want to limit tables in the case of the round robin so they can still have some rental income -- such as, OK you can have 12 tables Friday/Saturday, not 16. If that is the case, we can still do the round robin, but the races and specific format need to fit the available tables if it is not going to be 16 for that reason. With double elimination, the room owner knows by early afternoon Saturday we are starting to free up tables for rental.

It looks like Bluegrass is a big room -- Mitch can you check with the room owner so we know if he would be on board at the very least, and if that would effect the green fees? Thank you!!
Or maybe the room owner would be OK with something like -- Yes, 16 tables from the morning until 6 PM (or whatever certain hour they pick), and after that time on Friday and Saturday night, limit our tournament tables to a smaller number, so they can rent more out. That should work for us too -- but again, the format needs to fit the available tables and schedule. But somethning like this would probably appeal to the room owner because they know from the get-go, that during their peak hours we are only tying up a certain number of tables.
 

Mkbtank

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2019 MOT location ballot

I will speak with Dominic (the room owner) today. I had already discussed the idea of 16 the first day and that number potentially dropping (to 12 say) as the tournament went on. I will clarify today.
 

Scrzbill

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Or maybe the room owner would be OK with something like -- Yes, 16 tables from the morning until 6 PM (or whatever certain hour they pick), and after that time on Friday and Saturday night, limit our tournament tables to a smaller number, so they can rent more out. That should work for us too -- but again, the format needs to fit the available tables and schedule. But somethning like this would probably appeal to the room owner because they know from the get-go, that during their peak hours we are only tying up a certain number of tables.
If you’re going to do round robin, I’ll stay home. Too much tournament play with no time available for matching up. I’m dead money in tournaments so why would I want to play all day and night and still lose? I’m not a tournament player. I’m thinking I’m not a match up player anymore.
 

Mkbtank

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2019 MOT location ballot

If you’re going to do round robin, I’ll stay home. Too much tournament play with no time available for matching up. I’m dead money in tournaments so why would I want to play all day and night and still lose? I’m not a tournament player. I’m thinking I’m not a match up player anymore.


Bill honestly I hadn’t thought about that point of it. It’s a good point. Hmm. I will say that BG has 28 regulation tables so that’s 12 more even if we use 16 to start out with for whatever format we end up with. It was 26 but they just added 2 more.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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If you’re going to do round robin, I’ll stay home. Too much tournament play with no time available for matching up. I’m dead money in tournaments so why would I want to play all day and night and still lose? I’m not a tournament player. I’m thinking I’m not a match up player anymore.
I will check the threads on RR and see when tables open up for matching up. But, I hear ya! Last year I was two and out, and you suggested I match up, which I would of but being severally under the weather, I just could not stick around.
Being able to match up and socialize IMO is essential.

I'll get back to you on when 8 tables open up when doing a RR format!

Another point is I think it has been noted that the pool hall opens at 10am. 9 am would be preferred with 10am start time!

I think I wrote up a time schedule for 3/3 w/ 16 tables, I believe it is maybe on this thread. But I'll help anyway I can, the players sure want you there! Whitey
 
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darmoose

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I will check the threads on RR and see when tables open up for matching up.

I'll get back to you on when 8 tables open up when doing a RR format!
But I'll help anyway I can, the players sure want you there! Whitey
Dennis,

Let me help with that. A RR can be anything we want it to be, and take whatever time we want it to take. Two versions discussed: yours was to start out with everybody on Friday, and eliminate maybe half the field for start of play on Saturday, and then reducing players down to 4 for Sundays finals. My version was to simply put everybody into the RR for both Friday and Saturday, and get to 4 for Sundays finals. The difference being that half the field is guaranteed either one day of play or two days of play. The length of time to complete each days play is solely dependent on the number of games per match.

In your version half the tables are not needed for Saturday. In my version all 16 tables are needed for both Friday and Saturday.

At 3 games/match your version would would guarantee only 12 games to everybody, mine would guarantee 21 games to everyone.

So, it simply comes down to why are we traveling and spending money to attend our MOT? Is the priority to keep more members in the hunt, involved in the tournament longer, or is it to whittle the field down fast so the losers can gamble? In any RR, at the very least, free play is available at the end of each day, and for all but 4 players, all day Sunday. It also seems that many players are planning to come early explicitly to gamble.

I like gambling as much as the next guy, but I think it serves this organizations future to create something unique as our MOT, something that we alone do, something that separates this group and OP from the lesser pool games, if you will.

I hope that no one will forego any MOT because they didn't get their way. I also hope that no one would feel pressured to accommodate any members "demands" while threatening to not attend.

Members should simply speak up as to what they want, and then we move on.

:)
 

NH Steve

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If you’re going to do round robin, I’ll stay home. Too much tournament play with no time available for matching up. I’m dead money in tournaments so why would I want to play all day and night and still lose? I’m not a tournament player. I’m thinking I’m not a match up player anymore.
The default is like I said, double elimination.
 

NH Steve

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Dennis,

Let me help with that. A RR can be anything we want it to be, and take whatever time we want it to take. Two versions discussed: yours was to start out with everybody on Friday, and eliminate maybe half the field for start of play on Saturday, and then reducing players down to 4 for Sundays finals. My version was to simply put everybody into the RR for both Friday and Saturday, and get to 4 for Sundays finals. The difference being that half the field is guaranteed either one day of play or two days of play. The length of time to complete each days play is solely dependent on the number of games per match.

In your version half the tables are not needed for Saturday. In my version all 16 tables are needed for both Friday and Saturday.

At 3 games/match your version would would guarantee only 12 games to everybody, mine would guarantee 21 games to everyone.

So, it simply comes down to why are we traveling and spending money to attend our MOT? Is the priority to keep more members in the hunt, involved in the tournament longer, or is it to whittle the field down fast so the losers can gamble? In any RR, at the very least, free play is available at the end of each day, and for all but 4 players, all day Sunday. It also seems that many players are planning to come early explicitly to gamble.

I like gambling as much as the next guy, but I think it serves this organizations future to create something unique as our MOT, something that we alone do, something that separates this group and OP from the lesser pool games, if you will.

I hope that no one will forego any MOT because they didn't get their way. I also hope that no one would feel pressured to accommodate any members "demands" while threatening to not attend.

Members should simply speak up as to what they want, and then we move on.

:)
21 games sounds grueling!!

If we do try RR at some point, I think Friday and Saturday for that, with a single elimination final round of 8 players Sunday. Using single elimination Sunday means even with 8 players that is only three rounds -- that is the same number of rounds as DE with 4 players left (assuming a single race finals, which is what we use). I don't see any reason whatsoever for double elimination Sunday if we are going with RR the first two days.
 

darmoose

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21 games sounds grueling!!

If we do try RR at some point, I think Friday and Saturday for that, with a single elimination final round of 8 players Sunday. Using single elimination Sunday means even with 8 players that is only three rounds -- that is the same number of rounds as DE with 4 players left (assuming a single race finals, which is what we use). I don't see any reason whatsoever for double elimination Sunday if we are going with RR the first two days.
Whatever you say, Steve. It is your organization. Since double elimination is our "default", are you saying that, at least for this year, no further discussion is necessary.

If so, perhaps if you would make that clear, we won't be wasting any more time considering anything else.

It's all good to me, no threats of nonparticipation here.

P.S. Double elimination with 4 players takes four rounds to complete (assuming a single race final).

:)
 

NH Steve

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Whatever you say, Steve. It is your organization. Since double elimination is our "default", are you saying that, at least for this year, no further discussion is necessary.

If so, perhaps if you would make that clear, we won't be wasting any more time considering anything else.

It's all good to me, no threats of nonparticipation here.

P.S. Double elimination with 4 players takes four rounds to complete (assuming a single race final).

:)
When I refer to 4 players taking 3 rounds to finish, I am talking about the 4 players at the end of a standard DE tournament -- so two in the winner side and two others with one loss. That only leaves three rounds I believe. If no one had a loss then you are right -- that would take an extra round.

I'm not making any special ruling by saying it is our default for the MOT -- we have had three MOT's so far and that has been our format for all three -- so it is the default by default, not by decree lol :D:D

If we are going to have a vote, then the RR might want to be pinned down to a specific RR format, rather than a generic "some kind of round robin". We already have a specific DE format, so it makes sense that if there is a vote it should be a specific RR format. If a few of the RR advocates can agree on one RR format, then let's put it up for a vote. But if the RR advocates cannot even agree then I am in fact inclined to stay with the double elimination we have used. The one definite new policy we have to have for double elimination being hard deadlines for tournament progress by the end of Friday night and the end of Saturday night, so that we have just 4 players left for Sunday's final matches.
 

youngstownkid

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2019 MOT location ballot

I would gladly run a multi day chip style tourney. Easy peasy. Doesn’t matter how many attend, how many tables, could have a fixed start and end time and I can guarantee lots of play against lots of different opponents. Everyone gets unlimited chips, then top 8 qualifiers (based on wins) could compete in a seeded single elimination race to whatever on Sunday. I would forego playing if necessary and gladly make the trip just to run the tourney. I could even post the waiting list in a journal post snd keep it updated so we could have a way to let players access that info easily with an app like Tapatalk in order to manage their down/waiting time.
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Until we hear back from Mkbtank on how many tables are available and for how long, then it is not possible to determine what RR format is best suited, and which RR format the players would prefer, and when tables open up to match up and so forth. On lesser tables available the RR format that works is Mr3cushion's format.

It also effects a 3/3 format, meaning if we can get the use of 16 tables the first day then 8 players would be eliminated and then we can play on 12 tables Saturday. Otherwise with less tables available, I do not know, possibly go to a 3/2 format, or go to 3/2 format in the 3rd round. Whitey
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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On a similar note, I started a weekly 8 ball tournament for A/B players w/ no advance players allowed. So some games may go by fairly quickly while others may take awhile.

We had 12 players, some play fairly well, but they decided they wanted to play a RR 2 games against ea. player. I told them ok but it is going to take a long time. We played on 5 and at times was able to use 6 - 9ft. tables.

So 12 players played 22 games each, equaling 264 games, which were played in 6 hrs. It was just a great tournament, players got to play a lot.

It does not seem possible to play that many games in that length of time, but they did. This might give some ideas to others that want to do a one day or two day 8, or 9 ball tournament. Time wise, 8 ball does not compare to OP of course. Whitey
 
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Scrzbill

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When I refer to 4 players taking 3 rounds to finish, I am talking about the 4 players at the end of a standard DE tournament -- so two in the winner side and two others with one loss. That only leaves three rounds I believe. If no one had a loss then you are right -- that would take an extra round.

I'm not making any special ruling by saying it is our default for the MOT -- we have had three MOT's so far and that has been our format for all three -- so it is the default by default, not by decree lol :D:D

If we are going to have a vote, then the RR might want to be pinned down to a specific RR format, rather than a generic "some kind of round robin". We already have a specific DE format, so it makes sense that if there is a vote it should be a specific RR format. If a few of the RR advocates can agree on one RR format, then let's put it up for a vote. But if the RR advocates cannot even agree then I am in fact inclined to stay with the double elimination we have used. The one definite new policy we have to have for double elimination being hard deadlines for tournament progress by the end of Friday night and the end of Saturday night, so that we have just 4 players left for Sunday's final matches.
It’s a little late to be making changes to the MOT format. People have made reservations, usually non refundable. The people wanting a change are the same ones who haven’t gone to the MOT and who knows if they intend to go or not. If you’re going to make a wholesale change to the tournament then people who may or may not want to go need that information. It’s not a threat that I won’t go to a RR, it’s not in my interest. What I think of RR is this, those who want a RR, start your own tournament like The Crab Man did.
 

LSJohn

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I hope that no one will forego any MOT because they didn't get their way. I also hope that no one would feel pressured to accommodate any members "demands" while threatening to not attend.

Members should simply speak up as to what they want, and then we move on.

:)
It gets tiresome, doesn't it.
 

LSJohn

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People have made reservations, usually non refundable.
Really? Sounds like something you made up. A June reservation made in February not refundable? You need to castigate your staff. :heh

It’s a little late to be making changes to the MOT format.
There is no carved-in-stone MOT format.

Steve has already said that the previous format is only the default by default. It's not official.
 
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