2010 One Pocket HOF Official Discussion Thread

ChicagoRJ

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Hmmmm

Hmmmm

I'm a little shocked that so many folks have NOT yet voted for Allen Hopkins.

By age 12 he already ran 110 balls, and at 17 went pro and took 5th in the US Open the same year. Certainly a prodigy from a young age...Natural God given talent for sure.

He is certainly a very intelligent guy with pool smarts to back it up. He was at one time considered the best 1P player on the planet, even winning the Legends of 1P Championship in 1991. He became that good at 1P because he knew all the other games so well that it was a natural transition for him. He played all of the games, and played them at championship level !!

Then you add his resume to his 1P prowess such as;

1977 US Open 9ball
1977 US Open straight pool
1986 Japan World Open Championship
1987 Japan World Open Championshop (BACK 2 BACK!!)
1981 US Open 9ball
1983 World 9ball
1984 Texas River City Open
1991 Legends of 1P
1993 International Challenge of Champions

And many more but too numerous to list !!

Then add his excellent work as a pool commentator and running a hugely successful Super Billiard Expo / pool tourney every year. This guy has been in the pool world his whole life, literally. He competed and won against the best players on the planet in the day, Murphy, Martin, Sigel, Mizerak, Rempe, Incardona, Ervolino and many others !!

This guy was elected to the BCA Hall of Fame in 2008.

And he is going to be a runner up in the 1P HOF voting?? I have not even touched on Buddy Hall or Clem who are also going to be a runner ups as well ??

I'm sure others may be worthy one day, but lets put the guys who clearly earned this award head and shoulders above all others so as not to disminish this fine and prestigious award.

There is still time left,,,please vote, I don't think this is should be a popularity contest. I never, in my life, have even met Mr. Hopkins, but plan to one day !!! Just my 2cents !! OK, it was more like 2 bits !!

PS: You can vote for more then one player, so don't forget Hall, Clem and Ervolino too !!!

Robert "RJ" Wilkinson
 
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philip guagliardo

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fred bentivegna said:
Just remembered that one of the most ironic things of the 20th century was the pairing of Johnny Ervolino and Brooklyn Pancho. They served together in the Army in the same outfit. I think it was Fort Dix, NJ. They were both MP's!


Beard
Freddy , How many times do you think they took a BRIBE ??

I wonder if the PX on post got robbed during their tour of duty !!

Classic those two MP's !! :eek:

Phil G
 

One Pocket Ghost

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fred bentivegna said:
Just remembered that one of the most ironic things of the 20th century was the pairing of Johnny Ervolino and Brooklyn Pancho. They served together in the Army in the same outfit. I think it was Fort Dix, NJ. They were both MP's!


Beard

Hey Freddy.....Out of all of your pool-history chronicles...imo, this tidbit is the most amazing/amusing of all.

- Ghost
 

JAM

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Well, I cast my vote. I did not know I could vote twice, though, or for two people, so I only got to vote for one, and that was Buddy Hall. For the life of me, I don't know how he's not already in, when I look at the list of names already inducted in the Hall of Fame for One-Pocket. :eek:

When I looked at this year's candidates, I must say that there were a few names on there that I only knew from the history books, but I know that they were great pool icons because their names live on. What's kind of sad is much of their accomplishments can only be shared by word of mouth, and in some cases, those people are now deceased. :(

I would have voted for Allen Hopkins. How can you not vote for somebody of his caliber? The guy was on every cover of a pool magazine for years, and played all games. I don't know how he does it with that little one-shot poke stroke, but it sure is effective on a field of green. ;)

Like pool tournament rules, you cannot please everybody. There will always be a voice of concern over how things are run. I appreciate the efforts of Steve, et al., who keep this Hall of Fame for One Pocket alive. It is so meaningful to some, those unsung heros who never got any recognition, thanks to the blue-blooded pool print media who only wanted to cover the industry member darlings who put money in their pockets.

I do not mean any disrespect to anyone, but this Internet voting system seems like a forum popularity contest. Buddy Hall and Allen Hopkins don't hang out on the pool forums, but I'm sure if they did, there would be more votes for them. When I look at their track records compared to some of the other front runners, to me it's no contest whatsoever. I don't think a person should be inducted because their forum buddies vote them in. Rather, they should be inducted based on their track records in pool.

That's just my loose change I'm throwing in this discussion thread, FWIW. I hope I do not offend anyone with my thoughts. This website is one of the best pool archives that ever existed, and for that, I am very appreciative that somebody took the time and effort to make it happen.

In case nobody's said it lately, thank you, Steve!:)

BTW, I saw Allen Hopkins in the finals at an Ocean State Championship against Ginky a few years ago, and it was one of the best finals I had ever witnessed. Neither one made many errors, and it came down to the breaks. What a great player Allen is, and he still gets out there and plays -- to include one-pocket, I might add.

Here's a cute shot of Allen Hopkins, depicted on the right -- (like nobody knows who Allen is :D ) -- and a friend.
 

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SJDinPHX

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JAM said:
Well, I cast my vote. I did not know I could vote twice, though, or for two people, so I only got to vote for one, and that was Buddy Hall. For the life of me, I don't know how he's not already in, when I look at the list of names already inducted in the Hall of Fame for One-Pocket. :eek:

When I looked at this year's candidates, I must say that there were a few names on there that I only knew from the history books, but I know that they were great pool icons because their names live on. What's kind of sad is much of their accomplishments can only be shared by word of mouth, and in some cases, those people are now deceased. :(

I would have voted for Allen Hopkins. How can you not vote for somebody of his caliber? The guy was on every cover of a pool magazine for years, and played all games. I don't know how he does it with that little one-shot poke stroke, but it sure is effective on a field of green. ;)

Like pool tournament rules, you cannot please everybody. There will always be a voice of concern over how things are run. I appreciate the efforts of Steve, et al., who keep this Hall of Fame for One Pocket alive. It is so meaningful to some, those unsung heros who never got any recognition, thanks to the blue-blooded pool print media who only wanted to cover the industry member darlings who put money in their pockets.

I do not mean any disrespect to anyone, but this Internet voting system seems like a forum popularity contest. Buddy Hall and Allen Hopkins don't hang out on the pool forums, but I'm sure if they did, there would be more votes for them. When I look at their track records compared to some of the other front runners, to me it's no contest whatsoever. I don't think a person should be inducted because their forum buddies vote them in. Rather, they should be inducted based on their track records in pool.

That's just my loose change I'm throwing in this discussion thread, FWIW. I hope I do not offend anyone with my thoughts. This website is one of the best pool archives that ever existed, and for that, I am very appreciative that somebody took the time and effort to make it happen.

In case nobody's said it lately, thank you, Steve!:)

BTW, I saw Allen Hopkins in the finals at an Ocean State Championship against Ginky a few years ago, and it was one of the best finals I had ever witnessed. Neither one made many errors, and it came down to the breaks. What a great player Allen is, and he still gets out there and plays -- to include one-pocket, I might add.

Here's a cute shot of Allen Hopkins, depicted on the right -- (like nobody knows who Allen is :D ) -- and a friend.
Jenny,

You weren't around for last years voting, but I agree with yours, and RJW's evaluation 100%.

Not trying to be overly humble, but as I said last year, there are a lot of guy's ahead of me more worthy of consideration...That opinion has not changed.

I do not think being a regular poster on here, should put me ahead of them, for whatever reason. I've had my day in the sun, and I took a long hiatus, from the early 70's to the early 90's. I made that choice myself, and I have never regretted it...Those guys you mentioned, and many more, stayed in action. No one could have known, those would be the greatest years ever for pool.

I am more than happy just to be nominated, and I do sincerely thank all the guys who voted for me. I will not feel any different, if I am voted in, but it is a long way from over.

Dick
 

twister

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I think the greater issue is that there is a preference for players here who are first and foremost thought of as 1P players. It doesn't always work out that way in the voting, and we can argue about whether that's valid or not, but in the end, that's the way it usually is. Of course, some candidates have more pool trophies on their walls than most of the other (if not all) of the candidates this year, but anything that's not 1P-related shouldn't matter. 9-ball, straight pool, even 3-cushion titles shouldn't mean anything for getting into the 1P HOF. For players, 1P titles and action matches should. Winning a major one pocket tournament shouldn't mean that player is automatically in the HOF, just as not winning a major one pocket tournament shouldn't mean that the player is automatically out of the HOF.

The 1P HOF is a great foil to the other more industry-controlled HOFs and one of the goals of the 1P HOF shouldn't be to simply make sure they include everyone else from the other HOFs. With only 1 living and 1 dead player inducted each year, there's bound to be hurt feelings on all sides, but Steve deserves our support even if we disagree with the inductees from year to year. As for certain people being more popular than others, I will say, it would be helpful (as well as a lot of fun to read) if we had stories about any and all of the one pocket nominees. Let's hear about the action matches, personalities and skills of all these guys. If you think someone deserves more credit than they're getting, then volunteer some stories, like some have recently done. The more, the merrier, especially anything concerning the overall pool superstars whose one pocket history many of us perhaps don't know enough about. Just my 3 or 4 cents. :)
 

RedCard

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Hubert

Hubert

Cokes was a terrific one pocket player and played just about until his death. He held court at the Elks club in Evansville in his later years. The stories about him are many and often trimmed with violence, the good kind.

He was multi-dimensional. He kept the herd thinned.
 

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fred bentivegna

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In case you missed this....

In case you missed this....

twister said:
I think the greater issue is that there is a preference for players here who are first and foremost thought of as 1P players. It doesn't always work out that way in the voting, and we can argue about whether that's valid or not, but in the end, that's the way it usually is. Of course, some candidates have more pool trophies on their walls than most of the other (if not all) of the candidates this year, but anything that's not 1P-related shouldn't matter. 9-ball, straight pool, even 3-cushion titles shouldn't mean anything for getting into the 1P HOF. For players, 1P titles and action matches should. Winning a major one pocket tournament shouldn't mean that player is automatically in the HOF, just as not winning a major one pocket tournament shouldn't mean that the player is automatically out of the HOF.

The 1P HOF is a great foil to the other more industry-controlled HOFs and one of the goals of the 1P HOF shouldn't be to simply make sure they include everyone else from the other HOFs. With only 1 living and 1 dead player inducted each year, there's bound to be hurt feelings on all sides, but Steve deserves our support even if we disagree with the inductees from year to year. As for certain people being more popular than others, I will say, it would be helpful (as well as a lot of fun to read) if we had stories about any and all of the one pocket nominees. Let's hear about the action matches, personalities and skills of all these guys. If you think someone deserves more credit than they're getting, then volunteer some stories, like some have recently done. The more, the merrier, especially anything concerning the overall pool superstars whose one pocket history many of us perhaps don't know enough about. Just my 3 or 4 cents. :)

I gave a mini bio on a few of the players that I was around in an earlier post. In case you didnt see it, I am reposting it. My two cents so far:

....Firstly, Beatle was right about my pal Johnny Ervolino. He was guilty of every bad thing that has been said about him. However, he was charming and loyal to his friends, and we all loved him.

Secondly, Doc you are a little off base when you say Johnny's entire career was devoted to 1P. Johnny was a deadly, feared money player -- when he was actually trying to win -- but the majority of his classical matches were with him playing even straight pool, 9ball, or spotting a weaker player playing 1P. I personally don't know of any top 1p player that he has ever beaten even. If I am wrong, and someone can point to some match-ups that I am not aware of, please educate me. Johnny hung out in Race Track Phil's and my joint, North Shore Billiards for a month and played zero 1P while there.

The biggest 1P game that I know of with Johnny came in the 70s in Wash. DC. He got a ball from Bugs, 8 to 7, and got staked by Sugar Shack. He played great and won handily. Sugar Shack confided to me that Johnny didn't really know the game but that he ran a million sevens. Sugar Shack also said that even after winning he wasn't all that crazy about the game.

Marcel Camp. Camp IMO did leave a lifetime legacy of world class 1P. He played as good as anybody for many years. I have a very short list of players that I think really knew how to PLAY 1P. Camp is near the top of that list.

Harold Worst. Harold's career was short because he died at 37. At Johnston City he offered to play anybody anything even, for whatever they wanted to bet (except bank pool). Everybody he played 1P with, he spotted.
Even the world's champion at the time, Eddie Taylor ducked him. I was with CornBread Red when he asked Eddie Taylor, "When ya' gonna play Worst some One pocket, and shut that loudmouthed Dutchman up?" Taylor responded, "I'm gonna git to him, Red, I'm gonna git to him." But he never did.

Allen Hopkins. In that short period when Bugs and Ronnie went into decline and Efren hadn't hit his stride yet, Allen Hopkins was the best one pocket player in the world. ie., Allen was playing our own fair haired boy Wm Incardona 10 to 8 in those days. On the other side of that coin and to give further perspective, while he was hanging in North Shore Billiards, Allen asked Artie for 8 to 7. Our other nominee, Buddy Hall topped that and asked Artie for 10 to 8.

Mexican Johnny? He asked Jimmy Moore to play 1P on the 5x10's in Bensingers in the 60s. Jimmy did not play. He played Jersey Red on the 5 by's and Red quit even after about 4 games.

Mike Carella? IMHO The worst, cheapest pool puke I ever came across in my career. Fantastic player and ball runner. Did magical things at the Rack in Detroit. Unbelievably, after playing some of the most phenomenal 1P I have ever seen, spotting guys like Black Jones 30 to 8, and 50 to 12, he went to California and played Ronnie Allen. Mike got spotted 9 to 7, and lost! Confirming to me Mike's inner creep self.
At the Rack he once won about 25k. Bugs was the gamekeeper and the match lasted about 24 hours. After it was over and Bugs asked for his "consideration," Mike told him, "Romberg owes me $200, get it from him and you can keep it."

Beard

I'll add a little more:
Marcel Camp was one of the greatest big money players of all time.
Junior Goff was basically a hustler and an ambusher, but did play pretty good.
Mexican Johnny played every human who came thru Chicago for 20 years.
Hubert Cokes, in the early 60s, in his 60s, still played good enough to play a proposition game that I havent seen anybody else play since. Eight or no count! I have seen and played two block fours, and five no count, watched Artie play a lot of six no count, heard that Paul Detroit Slim Graham played Marvin Goodman of Chicago, ten or no count on a 5 x 10, but I never seen anybody but Hubert Cokes play someone eight or no count.

Little Al Romero, always was and still is, a road warrior. We tustled on sight in the 70s and 80s. A double tough Motha but never played like Buddy, Clem or Allen.

Clem Metz beat Eddie Taylor in a marathon match in Cinnci in the 60s. Bar B Q'd Johnny Vivas. Played Joey Spaeth 10 to 8. Clem used to shoot a safety shot on the 5 x 10 whereby he would shoot your ball away, from 7 or 8 feet away, and the cue ball would walk forward an inch or two and freeze on the rail. The only other guy I ever seen who could do that with impugnity was Chicago's Isadore Pony Rosen.

Beard
 
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twister

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fred bentivegna said:
I gave a mini bio on a few of the players that I was around in an earlier post. In case you didnt see it, I am reposting it. My two cents so far:

....Firstly, Beatle was right about my pal Johnny Ervolino. He was guilty of every bad thing that has been said about him. However, he was charming and loyal to his friends, and we all loved him.

Secondly, Doc you are a little off base when you say Johnny's entire career was devoted to 1P. Johnny was a deadly, feared money player -- when he was actually trying to win -- but the majority of his classical matches were with him playing even straight pool, 9ball, or spotting a weaker player playing 1P. I personally don't know of any top 1p player that he has ever beaten even. If I am wrong, and someone can point to some match-ups that I am not aware of, please educate me. Johnny hung out in Race Track Phil's and my joint, North Shore Billiards for a month and played zero 1P while there.

The biggest 1P game that I know of with Johnny came in the 70s in Wash. DC. He got a ball from Bugs, 8 to 7, and got staked by Sugar Shack. He played great and won handily. Sugar Shack confided to me that Johnny didn't really know the game but that he ran a million sevens. Sugar Shack also said that even after winning he wasn't all that crazy about the game.

Marcel Camp. Camp IMO did leave a lifetime legacy of world class 1P. He played as good as anybody for many years. I have a very short list of players that I think really knew how to PLAY 1P. Camp is near the top of that list.

Harold Worst. Harold's career was short because he died at 37. At Johnston City he offered to play anybody anything even, for whatever they wanted to bet (except bank pool). Everybody he played 1P with, he spotted.
Even the world's champion at the time, Eddie Taylor ducked him. I was with CornBread Red when he asked Eddie Taylor, "When ya' gonna play Worst some One pocket, and shut that loudmouthed Dutchman up?" Taylor responded, "I'm gonna git to him, Red, I'm gonna git to him." But he never did.

Allen Hopkins. In that short period when Bugs and Ronnie went into decline and Efren hadn't hit his stride yet, Allen Hopkins was the best one pocket player in the world. ie., Allen was playing our own fair haired boy Wm Incardona 10 to 8 in those days. On the other side of that coin and to give further perspective, while he was hanging in North Shore Billiards, Allen asked Artie for 8 to 7. Our other nominee, Buddy Hall topped that and asked Artie for 10 to 8.

Mexican Johnny? He asked Jimmy Moore to play 1P on the 5x10's in Bensingers in the 60s. Jimmy did not play. He played Jersey Red on the 5 by's and Red quit even after about 4 games.

Mike Carella? IMHO The worst, cheapest pool puke I ever came across in my career. Fantastic player and ball runner. Did magical things at the Rack in Detroit. Unbelievably, after playing some of the most phenomenal 1P I have ever seen, spotting guys like Black Jones 30 to 8, and 50 to 12, he went to California and played Ronnie Allen. Mike got spotted 9 to 7, and lost! Confirming to me Mike's inner creep self.
At the Rack he once won about 25k. Bugs was the gamekeeper and the match lasted about 24 hours. After it was over and Bugs asked for his "consideration," Mike told him, "Romberg owes me $200, get it from him and you can keep it."

Beard

I'll add a little more:
Marcel Camp was one of the greatest big money players of all time.
Junior Goff was basically a hustler and an ambusher, but did play pretty good.
Mexican Johnny played every human who came thru Chicago for 20 years.
Hubert Cokes, in the early 60s, in his 60s, still played good enough to play a proposition game that I havent seen anybody else play since. Eight or no count! I have seen and played two block fours, and five no count, watched Artie play a lot of six no count, heard that Paul Detroit Slim Graham played Marvin Goodman of Chicago, ten or no count on a 5 x 10, but I never seen anybody but Hubert Cokes play someone eight or no count.

Little Al Romero, always was and still is, a road warrior. We tustled on sight in the 70s and 80s. A double tough Motha but never played like Buddy, Clem or Allen.

Clem Metz beat Eddie Taylor in a marathon match in Cinnci in the 60s. Bar B Q'd Johnny Vivas. Played Joey Spaeth 10 to 8. Clem used to shoot a safety shot on the 5 x 10 whereby he would shoot your ball away, from 7 or 8 feet away, and the cue ball would walk forward an inch or two and freeze on the rail. The only other guy I ever seen who could do that with impugnity was Chicago's Isadore Pony Rosen.

Beard
Thanks Freddie. I had read this post of your earlier, but I think it's very timely to re-post it now as we're in the thick of HOF voting. Awesome stuff as always.
 

ChicagoRJ

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Hmmm

Hmmm

twister said:
Thanks Freddie. I had read this post of your earlier, but I think it's very timely to re-post it now as we're in the thick of HOF voting. Awesome stuff as always.

I agree....Bump to the top so voters can take a gander at the players !!!!!!!
 

jay helfert

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"CINCINNATI CLEM" METZ! Only one of the greatest One Pocket players ever! Not having him in the HOF is like leaving Babe Ruth out of baseball's HOF.

My second choice is "Young Hoppe" Allen Hopkins, a winning One Pocket player for over twenty years against the best players on the planet. No one gave him any weight either, and only a few played him even. Allen would gamble and bet high too, a fearless player!

Everyone else on this list is below these two guys imo.
 

Gerry

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Hi all, its been a while since I have posted here. I actually couldnt log in?.....Steve hooked me back up again! After watching Lennys stream last night I wanted to come back here to catch up.

For some reason I can't vote, but I will vote for Allen Hopkins. Trust me, he knows about this honor and it means the world to him, and all these guys to have a knowlegable crowd recognize them for their lifetime of pool.

I got an invite from my buddy today to go with him and Allen this Tuesday nite to Sand Castle Billiards for a tourney.....I'm going! and I will see if Allen will give up some old road stories to post here. I have known Allen for maybe 20 years from working in local pool rooms here in PA, and the Expo. The man has a million road stories, and you ALWAYS have fun wherever you go with him. That, and he still plays most every day! very cool!

G.
 

stevelomako

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Gerry said:
Hi all, its been a while since I have posted here. I actually couldnt log in?.....Steve hooked me back up again! After watching Lennys stream last night I wanted to come back here to catch up.

For some reason I can't vote, but I will vote for Allen Hopkins. Trust me, he knows about this honor and it means the world to him, and all these guys to have a knowlegable crowd recognize them for their lifetime of pool.

I got an invite from my buddy today to go with him and Allen this Tuesday nite to Sand Castle Billiards for a tourney.....I'm going! and I will see if Allen will give up some old road stories to post here. I have known Allen for maybe 20 years from working in local pool rooms here in PA, and the Expo. The man has a million road stories, and you ALWAYS have fun wherever you go with him. That, and he still plays most every day! very cool!

G.
Ask him about the "Donkey Kong" story, Back in the early 80's.
 

demonrho

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We forgot to put up Cecil Tugwell this year for the one pocket hall of fame. He could hold his own or better with a couple of the nominees - and he is still alive to appreciate such an honor. That's also why we should elect SJD this year before all that Yukon Jack takes its toll. We can always get the younger guys in next year. I'm a pretty good pool detective and from all I can gather Dick played one hole for the dough at a champion speed.
 

fred bentivegna

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Only problem...

Only problem...

demonrho said:
We forgot to put up Cecil Tugwell this year for the one pocket hall of fame. He could hold his own or better with a couple of the nominees - and he is still alive to appreciate such an honor. That's also why we should elect SJD this year before all that Yukon Jack takes its toll. We can always get the younger guys in next year. I'm a pretty good pool detective and from all I can gather Dick played one hole for the dough at a champion speed.
...when he quit playing Babe Ruth was still in the orphanage.

Beard
 

NH Steve

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Yeah, we missed Tugwell this time. He does deserve a good spot on the ballot. Let's keep that in mind for next year....
 
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