1st Question - Crossover banks - short rail

[CaliRed]

Is there any rules of thumb on the crossover banks to which ones go and which ones are going to get a kiss?

How do you tell?

Helpful hints?

Not saying this one can be made... talking more in general about all of these types of banks

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3COSD4PKJY@[/cuetable]

 

[NH Steve]

What you have drawn is a particularly low angle for a "cross over" bank -- at least by my definition. I've drawn a little triangular area that I think from that low angle is pretty much a dead kiss unless you have some kind of something special To the left of the yellow triangle (yellow ball), no problem because the cue ball is going to bank out of the way before the object ball rebounds across the table. To the right of the yellow triangle, at this low angle, there is only a narrow area that I am trying to show with a red triangle, where you can cross over, then a little further to the right of the red triangle, of course you just have a natural bank, or something you can "shorten up" and fire across.

In that red triangle area where you can cross over the bank, what you are doing is ducking the cue ball underneath the path of the banked ball, so the banked ball passes across the table before the cue ball gets back up in the way. There are two different ways to help avoid this kiss in my experience:
1. Use low -- maybe a touch of outside english (left in this example) -- to hold up the cue ball a little right there so the object ball can pass over
2. Or use soft right follow english to steer the cue ball's rebound path behind the path of the crossing object ball

 

[dmyroncox]

kiss

kiss

generally speaking
if you can shoot the q ball into the pocket past the ball in question it will cross without kissing

 

[androd]

Is there any rules of thumb on the crossover banks to which ones go and which ones are going to get a kiss?

How do you tell?

Helpful hints?

Not saying this one can be made... talking more in general about all of these types of banks

Greg, You posted a kiss for your example, It can possibly be avoided.
Anytime you can shoot the CB by the OB and the target is very close to the passing corner of the pocket, you have to do something special to avoid the kiss. Example below CB A is target.
Rod.
PS, I agree with dmyroncox's post above.


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3COSD4PKJY3QVEn4kKJY3kUnn@[/CUETABLE]

 

[lll]

Greg great question
Freddy in the august 2010 Inside Pool magazine which you can download here is the link
http://www.insidepoolmag.com/magazines/julyaugust-2010-insidepool-magazine.html
discusses this question
in summary this is the gist
When the balls line up on a straight line to the middle of the FACING of the corner pocket, the bank is a dead kiss. It is extremely difficult to beat the kiss when the balls are on a line to the middle of the FACING.

When the balls line up on a straight line to the MIDDLE of the POCKET, there is no kiss.

 

[lll]

generally speaking
if you can shoot the q ball into the pocket past the ball in question it will cross without kissing

this ive heard grady say on his tapes
ive never been able to reconcile how both methods work

 

[MARK..HOU TX]

this ive heard grady say on his tapes
ive never been able to reconcile how both methods work

Rods gone over this with me several times ..startin to get comfortable with it...but if we play this afternoon I might get him to refresh me before we start our match LOL

 

[vapros]

Looks to me like this one will play. A little outside english and sort of a stun shot, with emphasis on taking the cb to the short rail and keeping it there.

 

[John Brumback]

Is there any rules of thumb on the crossover banks to which ones go and which ones are going to get a kiss?

How do you tell?

Helpful hints?

Not saying this one can be made... talking more in general about all of these types of banks

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3COSD4PKJY@[/cuetable]

Greg,I think you have all good answers here.Very good.IMO
PS:If I could come with a direct answer to that one question...I could get rich,lol John B.

 

[Big Jim]

Is there any rules of thumb on the crossover banks to which ones go and which ones are going to get a kiss?

How do you tell?

Helpful hints?

Not saying this one can be made... talking more in general about all of these types of banks

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3COSD4PKJY@[/cuetable]

When i approach the table and see a cross corner bank with a questionable kiss, i try to determine if the cue ball has a shorter distance to the rail than the object ball , then the ball will not kiss, if the object ball is closer to the rail than the distance the cue ball will travel to the cushion, then it will kiss every time. Also if the distance is equal you can count on the kiss. Hope i explained my theory adequately. Big Jim

 

[gulfportdoc]

Jim, it sounds like you have a decent system here, but I'm a little confused. Which of the distances are you referring to as "closer to the rail"? CB to short rail, and OB long rail? Or is the OB to short rail figured in? Thanks~ Doc

 

[androd]

Doc, I'm confused also.
Rod.

 

[Big Jim]

kisses

kisses

If the cue ball is closer to the rail than the object ball then it is not a kiss shot.

Because the cue ball has a shorter distance to travel to get out of the way to avoid the kiss.

Look me up at DCC, my name is Jim Fulcher

 

[Big Jim]

Jim, it sounds like you have a decent system here, but I'm a little confused. Which of the distances are you referring to as "closer to the rail"? CB to short rail, and OB long rail? Or is the OB to short rail figured in? Thanks~ Doc
View attachment 2246

cue ball to the short rail.
Jim

 

[vapros]

I'm sure Big Jim is a capable banker, but I can't understand either his original theory or his clarification. Surely it is just a different approach to the rules-of-thumb we already know. I think he looks at it differently, but reaches the same conclusion as would Grady or Freddy. (But not both!) I know about six ways to beat those obvious kisses - but none of them work.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Yeah, maybe we can kick this system around a little at DCC. If the CB is closer to the same rail as the OB is, then obviously there couldn't be a kiss, because the CB doesn't cross over the OB's path.

In the case of our present illustration, there is a kiss. In order to explain why there's a kiss, I thought you were commenting on the comparison between the distance of the CB to the short rail with the distance of the OB to the long rail.

Doc

 

[lll]

doc
in the osborne thread you say this
It looks like because the 1-ball could be shot straight into the corner pocket, there is no kiss
could you explain that please?

 

[dinoboy1]

determining a kiss bank

determining a kiss bank

A more precise way to look at it is if it is completely straight in, and is lined up to the center of the pocket, then the kiss can be beat, or more accurately there is no kiss, as long as you know how to shoot it. It may not be a hanger, but the shot does go, if you know how to make it. Almost any kiss bank can be beat, you just have to know the secret formula!
What a great topic to discuss, I was taught that exact same shot early in my career, and although I can beat the kiss easily, I still dont understand the science behind determining why that set up, or "formula" if you will, determines that it is not a kiss. I'm just happy I'm able to make it, without kissing it, even if I dont know why it's not a kiss shot.
I wish there were more threads about detecting, as well as beating, "kiss bank's". dinoboy1,
aka, (freddy "then beards son). ..POOL IS COOL

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I wish there were more threads about detecting, as well as beating, "kiss bank's". dinoboy1,
aka, (freddy "then beards son). ..POOL IS COOL

Well dinoboy1, maybe if you'd posted about your wishes more than three times in 4 & 1/2 years you would have seen those threads.

Dennis

 

[dmyroncox]

if you can shoot the q ball past the object ball into the pocket it is makeable without a kiss