Significance for the game?

vapros

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Is there anything really meaningful in the fact that this year's one-pocket championship was contested between two rotation players? Was it only a combination of circumstances at the DCC, or should we note some real change in the game? We see a bunch of 9 ball players getting into one-pocket, and some of them seem to be getting the hang of it mighty quick. It will be at least very interesting, and maybe even ominous, if we find that the traditional approach can't keep up with the sharpshooters.

Let's talk about it. Is that what's coming?
 

Skin

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Maybe what we are seeing is the resurrection of the complete player, vapros. I doubt that anybody was ever surprised when, for example, Champagne Ed Kelley or Harold Worst took down a field at 9b and one-pocket.

Players have become over-specialized during the past several decades and that trend has been led particularly by the Europeans. Tournament play has had a lot to do with it. The Filipinos have not bought into it, to their credit.

Earl and SVB are the best Americans of their generation. Maybe they have figured out that they can win at any game and just decided to start doing it. Efren, in my opinion, is currently the last complete player standing but he is getting old. It's time for the complete player to get back into vogue, in my opinion.

There is nothing standing in the way of a good 9 baller being a good one-pocketeer except the bias that says he cannot do it. In my experience, 9 ballers have strong hearts when things go south, a great asset for 1p. Heart is worth gold, in my opinion. Earl and SVB bring that to the game of 1p and it may be why they won.

Skin
 
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lll

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its funny how to me the argument still comes down to movers and shooters
9 ball and rotation players "the shooters" are looked down upon by one pocket players because they cant "move.
1p players i bet are looked down upon by 9b players because they cant shoot and getting a ball close but not in their hole is a "good shot"
but if you get shooters to learn strategy and the "moves" then you have a tough opponent
skin i think all pros are "complete players' or can be
meaning they can shoot and control the cue ball
it takes desire and time to learn the subtleties(sp) of reading the stack
(part of 14.1 and one pocket not 9 ball)
or banking well comes natural to bankers and 1p players
yet drilling the ball into the hole is natural to the 9 baller
so all the pros have the skill yet to be a pro at each discipline takes time and effort to acquire the skills particular to each game.
in short races the shooters have an advantage in my opinion because they can run balls better therefore get to 8 first.
overtime the casino wins .
so i beleive the better player of the game at hand will wil
just my long winded 3 cents
 

BUD GREEN

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Rempe won the one pocket at Johnson City one year (71- beat R. Allen) and said he took all kinds of "wrong" shots, but made them and won.
 

Deeman

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I can agree with most all of all your incitful comments. in the specific case of the finals and the case gamenbetween SVB and Earl, while it is easy for any of us to question champions, both are outstanding shotmakers but perhaps just not experienced enough in the game's finer points.

In the lastmgame, for those who saw it. Earl had two shot choices. An almost straight in one that would haven allowed him a max of three or four balls in the run before ducking. The one he shot was a ten degree or so angle into the stack next to it. He shot the 3 and buried himself in the middle of all the balls with no practical escape and basically sold out.

My thought was thatnif he had been a more experienced one pocket, long rack or especially straight pool player, he would have taken the easy three or four balls but jumpedmat a chance to break open more balls and really paid for it.

Overall, I thought he played brilliantly, with a few bad choices in the tournament that he didn't often pay a high price for. His amazing, old Earl, shotmaking got him there.

Both he and Shane can be proud and I have not seen him in so much control and cheerful in about 25 years! Even with him flipping off Pots and Pans he was well behaved. On second thought, that made him even more likable this time! ;)

Glad I saw all his matches.

DeeMan
 

SJDinPHX

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Deeman said:
I can agree with most all of all your incitful comments. in the specific case of the finals and the case gamenbetween SVB and Earl, while it is easy for any of us to question champions, both are outstanding shotmakers but perhaps just not experienced enough in the game's finer points.

In the lastmgame, for those who saw it. Earl had two shot choices. An almost straight in one that would haven allowed him a max of three or four balls in the run before ducking. The one he shot was a ten degree or so angle into the stack next to it. He shot the 3 and buried himself in the middle of all the balls with no practical escape and basically sold out.

My thought was thatnif he had been a more experienced one pocket, long rack or especially straight pool player, he would have taken the easy three or four balls but jumpedmat a chance to break open more balls and really paid for it.

Overall, I thought he played brilliantly, with a few bad choices in the tournament that he didn't often pay a high price for. His amazing, old Earl, shotmaking got him there.

Both he and Shane can be proud and I have not seen him in so much control and cheerful in about 25 years! Even with him flipping off Pots and Pans he was well behaved. On second thought, that made him even more likable this time! ;)

Glad I saw all his matches.

DeeMan

Good observations, all you guys...I too could not believe Earl chose the 3, over the 1 ball, for his last hurrah...But that is how both he and Shane got through a pretty tough field of knowledgable one pocket players...firin' at their hole ! (and makin' almost all of them)

I still have to believe, in a longer race, Shannon (or any other real solid 1P player) would have eventually frustrated, either Earl or Shane...But it is what it is.
The final was sure a crowd pleaser, wasn't it ? (maybe the shortest 5 game set on record too)..;)

Also, in case you didn't notice, one "top 1P player" in particular, picked the wrong week to "sauce it up" every night...didn't he ?..:cool:
 
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NH Steve

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BUD GREEN said:
Rempe won the one pocket at Johnson City one year (71- beat R. Allen) and said he took all kinds of "wrong" shots, but made them and won.
And you can add Mike Sigel to that list of great players. Why not? They shoot straight, they play great position and they play great safeties already -- that seems to make up for what they lack in some of the specific One Pocket intricacies. IMO, the reason the Filipinos pick up the game so quickly is (like others have said) they are already such polished all-around players, very accustomed to delicately maneuvering the cue ball in traffic from their 15-ball rotation background.

Another point I would add is that we are in a generation where knowledge is everywhere -- on the internet, in books, on dvd's -- this stuff was simply not out there just 10-20 years ago. Speaking of which, I happened to walk by the Accustats table during the DCC and there was Karen Corr, stocking up on Banks and One Pocket DVD's... :D
 

lfigueroa

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vapros said:
Is there anything really meaningful in the fact that this year's one-pocket championship was contested between two rotation players? Was it only a combination of circumstances at the DCC, or should we note some real change in the game? We see a bunch of 9 ball players getting into one-pocket, and some of them seem to be getting the hang of it mighty quick. It will be at least very interesting, and maybe even ominous, if we find that the traditional approach can't keep up with the sharpshooters.

Let's talk about it. Is that what's coming?


FWIW, having played down there, my observation is that under DCC conditions 1pocket becomes a far more offensive game than it's traditional pool hall form. It is a combination of the average level of play, the very quick table conditions, the relatively tight pockets, and the fact that you have a whole slew of players "fired in" from the Banks tournament. Playing the squeeze game is almost impossible because the balls move so much with so little energy that it is very hard to control the roll of the CB. And so you are virtually forced to go on offense, even when a solid defensive move is available.

Lou Figueroa
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
Also, in case you didn't notice, one "top 1P player" in particular, picked the wrong week to "sauce it up" every night...didn't he ?..:cool:

Maybe someone should let him know that character can't be found in a bottle, but he'll probably have to hit rock bottom first. It seems like he's close to it now.
 

CaliRed

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Maybe someone should let him know that character can't be found in a bottle, but he'll probably have to hit rock bottom first. It seems like he's close to it now.

I know if I won the year before and it was my 1st win, trying to sway the world into acknowledging I was the best onepocket player in the world, It would be very important to me to try and win it 2 years in a row to silence any critics. Plus the cash and prestige would be great:D

The last thing I would do is party it up and take a chance of sabotaging my shot. If you make it thru all those players and you're near the finish line, you've done the hard part.

Partying at Kolby's during the weekly onepocket tournament is fine... partying at the DCC, a once a year tournament, in the late rounds is ridiculous.

But..... to each his own. I guess a person has to make a choice of what is more important at the time.:eek:
 

Terry Ardeno

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Good for pool

Good for pool

vapros said:
Is there anything really meaningful in the fact that this year's one-pocket championship was contested between two rotation players? Was it only a combination of circumstances at the DCC, or should we note some real change in the game? We see a bunch of 9 ball players getting into one-pocket, and some of them seem to be getting the hang of it mighty quick. It will be at least very interesting, and maybe even ominous, if we find that the traditional approach can't keep up with the sharpshooters.

Let's talk about it. Is that what's coming?

Good topic for a thread Vapros.

Used to be that each discipline was "dominated" by a handful of players that "specialized" in that particular game.

I think that the DCC has, over the years now, helped popularize Banks & 1P to the extent that many rotation players now see $ signs in learning how to play other disciplines. More and more players are 'cross-training" in other games. And they're developing their own styles and concepts as they learn.
Hard to argue with success.

Having seen what SVB & Earl can do in !P and how nice Alex played thru the banks division is sure to inspire other 9 & 10 ball specialists to hone up on their other skills.

Also, I can imagine the many fertile fields of gambling match ups when a known 9 baller with very little 1P or banks background, is trying to hustle up (sorry, bad choice of words :D ) a game of 1P or banks with a specialist in that particular game. At least, I hope it inspires more players to branch out a little.
 

Terry Ardeno

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Priorities

Priorities

CaliRed said:
I know if I won the year before and it was my 1st win, trying to sway the world into acknowledging I was the best onepocket player in the world, It would be very important to me to try and win it 2 years in a row to silence any critics. Plus the cash and prestige would be great:D

The last thing I would do is party it up and take a chance of sabotaging my shot. If you make it thru all those players and you're near the finish line, you've done the hard part.

Partying at Kolby's during the weekly onepocket tournament is fine... partying at the DCC, a once a year tournament, in the late rounds is ridiculous.

But..... to each his own. I guess a person has to make a choice of what is more important at the time.:eek:


Good post Cali.

"Black hookers" or the pool history books?
Sleeping in preparation for your next days battles or getting drunk?
We all got so many choices to make......:rolleyes:

Contrast some of pool's chananigans (sp?) with how some other pros in other sports prepare for their sport of choice.

Hyperbolic sleeping chamber or the corner beer garden?

That could be another reason why pool is not as $ lucrative $ as other sports.

But really, this is just like life. You either look at the big picture and the long haul, or you live for the moment only. One way could lead to the penthouse, another way may well lead someone to the outhouse.

To each their own I guess. :)
 

vapros

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On the other hand, right this minute John Hager is giving Dippy 15-5, and I swear I think Dippy is toying with him. It's on TAR. I doubt that Hager has ever played one-pocket before in his whole life. It's pretty sad.
 

androd

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vapros said:
On the other hand, right this minute John Hager is giving Dippy 15-5, and I swear I think Dippy is toying with him. It's on TAR. I doubt that Hager has ever played one-pocket before in his whole life. It's pretty sad.

I would imagine that J.D. could best any of the hackers on this site.:D
Rod.
 
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jrhendy

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vapros said:
On the other hand, right this minute John Hager is giving Dippy 15-5, and I swear I think Dippy is toying with him. It's on TAR. I doubt that Hager has ever played one-pocket before in his whole life. It's pretty sad.

Hager played Frost last night with a little weight and beat Harry
Platis the other night giving up quite a bit of weight.

He is supposed to be a pretty good one pocket player, but I think the game with Dippy is so far out of line he became helpless. I watched a few games and Dippy out moved him, but he was broken down.
 

RedCard

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♫ Don't Know Much About History...♪

♫ Don't Know Much About History...♪

"Black hookers" or the pool history books?
Sleeping in preparation for your next days battles or getting drunk?
We all got so many choices to make......:


The correct choice is often self-evident, not to say that pool history books don't have their time and place.
 

vapros

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Glad to know that - I didn't know he played one-pocket at all. I saw him make a bunch of really bad choices, especially in the second to last game.
 

lfigueroa

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CaliRed said:
I know if I won the year before and it was my 1st win, trying to sway the world into acknowledging I was the best onepocket player in the world, It would be very important to me to try and win it 2 years in a row to silence any critics. Plus the cash and prestige would be great:D

The last thing I would do is party it up and take a chance of sabotaging my shot. If you make it thru all those players and you're near the finish line, you've done the hard part.

Partying at Kolby's during the weekly onepocket tournament is fine... partying at the DCC, a once a year tournament, in the late rounds is ridiculous.

But..... to each his own. I guess a person has to make a choice of what is more important at the time.:eek:


Fast Eddie Felson parallels anyone?

Being a champion, or the best of whatever, means more than technical skill. It is a lesson often hard learned, sometimes never learned by some, and often an opportunity that eventually slips away forever.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

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vapros said:
Glad to know that - I didn't know he played one-pocket at all. I saw him make a bunch of really bad choices, especially in the second to last game.


I don't know specifically what shots you're speaking to, but sometimes down there the wrong shot is the right shot. I know I shot several shots at the DCC that I wouldn't dream of shooting elsewhere, maybe even my home court. The conditions are just different and you have to adjust.

Lou Figueroa
 

Terry Ardeno

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Very good

Very good

lfigueroa said:
Fast Eddie Felson parallels anyone?

Being a champion, or the best of whatever, means more than technical skill. It is a lesson often hard learned, sometimes never learned by some, and often an opportunity that eventually slips away forever.

Lou Figueroa

Mine is already taken but that would make a terrific signature line!
Nice summary Lou!
 
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