Aiming systems

[Cowboy Dennis]

Excellent idea Fred,...Lets all return to Dennis' post #121, for some welcome relief from what all "Aiming System" threads eventually become,...A long, drawn out, and extremely boring "flame war".

For instance...which would you rather look at...This....(Dennis' hero's)

One of these days I'm going to knock the hell out of the moron that taught you to post pics .

 

[fred bentivegna]

LIke you really care...

LIke you really care...

Originally Posted by NH Steve
Great point, Vapros, I think that says it all.

I think mainly for banks I either consciously or unconsciously compare the shot I am looking at to a common shot I remember, and then I adjust from there, either consciously or unconsciously -- probably depending on if I am on a roll or not. I do often use my cue stick to help visualize the angle going into the first rail (relative to the cue ball). What I am looking at when I do that is just help seeing the cut angle into the rail, not a specific spot on the rail. Then I use memory and feel -- which I believe naturally takes into consideration english and speed. I know I bank best when I keep my bridge short and stay closer to the middle of the cue ball, i.e. not too much english -- unless of course it is a real english style bank where you need to load up.

Great post Steve...I think you have finally described the method used by an overwhelming majority of good (and great) players...Its hard to put into words, but I believe you nailed it...

PS...You too Vapros (but you cut to the chase to quick)../

Now you've resorted to suckholding the sensible posters. Have you no shame? It's doubtful that you have even read the posts you are "salivating" over.
You're just looking to attract sympathizers by feigning to see their point. Everybody knows you are still in hijack mode, and your only real motive is to steer people away from investigating the ideas of a master player, simply because I brought it up.

Beard

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Now you've resorted to suckholding the sensible posters. Have you no shame? It's doubtful that you have even read the posts you are "salivating" over.
You're just looking to attract sympathizers by feigning to see their point. Everybody knows you are still in hijack mode, and your only real motive is to steer people away from investigating the ideas of a master player, simply because I brought it up.

Beard

Beard

FREDDY THE BEARD <<<<-------------Born at night, but not last night .

 

[SJDinPHX]

Originally Posted by NH Steve
Great point, Vapros, I think that says it all.

I think mainly for banks I either consciously or unconsciously compare the shot I am looking at to a common shot I remember, and then I adjust from there, either consciously or unconsciously -- probably depending on if I am on a roll or not. I do often use my cue stick to help visualize the angle going into the first rail (relative to the cue ball). What I am looking at when I do that is just help seeing the cut angle into the rail, not a specific spot on the rail. Then I use memory and feel -- which I believe naturally takes into consideration english and speed. I know I bank best when I keep my bridge short and stay closer to the middle of the cue ball, i.e. not too much english -- unless of course it is a real english style bank where you need to load up.

Great post Steve...I think you have finally described the method used by an overwhelming majority of good (and great) players...Its hard to put into words, but I believe you nailed it...

PS...You too Vapros (but you cut to the chase to quick)../

Now you've resorted to suckholding the sensible posters. Have you no shame? It's doubtful that you have even read the posts you are "salivating" over.
You're just looking to attract sympathizers by feigning to see their point. Everybody knows you are still in hijack mode, and your only real motive is to steer people away from investigating the ideas of a master player, simply because I brought it up.

Beard

Beard

I admit to trying to "steer" the thread, to some form of sensible dialogue...Anything is better than listening to your "cut and paste' replies, to my intelligent and astute observations. (is the truth bragging ?)

I also admit to trying to avoid ANYTHING you bring up. My brain is on overload, just trying to absorb your ranting's, so I'm tuning you out comepletely.

Adios Egolatra Barba

 

[SJDinPHX]

FREDDY THE BEARD <<<<-------------Born at night, but not last night .

Being as you like political posts.. Your feeble effort at trying to help the poor slob, is similar to the help Nancy Pelosi gave, to her (now former) boss...Outstanding

That lady was/is, in your own words...a real, genuine "Tsunami of Tstupidity"...Try not to emulate her...

 

[wincardona]

This was an aiming thread before the Sand J.O. derailed it. Since he is so against any form of aiming system, why is it that he always take such an interest in these threads? He's like those atheist's that fret so much over people of faith.

Now for whomsoever still had some idle curiousity about the master player, Sailor Barge, regarding aiming and such, I am posting some pages out of the forward of my first book. For those who haven't read it yet, you may find it interesting. For those that don't care, there is always a re-perusal of Dennis's well-meaning hi-jack, with those big bootied cheer leaders.

Quote from Banking With The Beard:

.....we are going to study a wonderful bank aiming method based on ideas developed by "Port Chester Mickey" Carpinello. "Port Chester Mickey" learned the system from a master player named William "Sailor" Barge. What readers will get here is a refined, simplified version of "Sailor" Barge's sighting method that I used in high–stakes competition for many years.

"Sailor" Barge, who had a high run of 356 balls on a 5 x 10 table, was an eccentric champion who snuck around undercover, winning local tournaments under assumed names. "Sailor" was a mystery man who kept a low profile up and down the eastern seaboard. Fifty or no count on a 5 x 10 was a game he often gave a sucker. "Sailor" was known, and avoided, by all the top players in the East. Sailor's student, "Port Chester Mickey," was cut from the same bolt of cloth and he eventually became the greatest, unknown player in the country.


The reason Mickey stayed an unknown was his dope habit. Mickey was a heroin addict. He would stay burrowed, deeply, into his dope world for years, never playing a game of pool. Mickey would emerge periodically, when "Sugar Shack" Johnny Novak and myself traveled to Port Chester, NY and dragged him out of his drug world and took him with us on the road.
While on the road, Mickey would go "cold turkey" and stay in the room for weeks kicking his habit. "Sugar Shack" insisted that Mickey must be totally straight while he was with us. It usually took about 30 days for Mickey to become a human being again.

After about three weeks, Mickey would start practicing diligently for hours every day. Two weeks of hard practice and he would be ready. Then we would turn him loose on the pool world. It was like unleashing Dracula on a necklace show. Nobody knew Mickey, so he went through the best players wherever he played like a chain saw going through butter. It was a massacre.
When Mickey was straight he had no bad habits. He didn't drink or smoke and could play for hours on a cup of coffee and a candy bar.

Mickey was a brutal sadist on a pool table. He would get ten or twelve games ahead playing 9-Ball (the only game he played) and if his opponent showed the slightest signs of revival, like trying to win a game, Mickey would change the rules in ways that favored him even more — no lucking in the 9-Ball — call your shot, and when he was really feeling ornery he'd make opponents call their position for every shot, which is a test many professionals cannot pass.

Seeing Mickey in action was like watching the 3rd Infantry division rolling through Iraq. Mickey's position play was so flawless that it seemed that he never had a hard shot. I told him, "I'm not sure if you can really play. You beat everybody, but all you ever shoot is hangers."

How good did Mickey really play? Good enough to sneak up on Wade "Boom Boom" Crane, aka, "Billy Johnson" in Atlanta in the sixties, when Billy only missed about a ball a week playing 9-Ball.

When he was off the drugs, Mickey was a clear minded philosopher whose views on any subject were worth recording. With that in mind, I once asked him, "Mickey, with a mind like you have, with such a clear, pure perspective on everything, how the hell could you become a lifetime heroin junkie?"
His reply was a typical Mickeyism, "When I am on heroin, my mind is not so clear."

All things must come to an end. After a few months of looting and pillaging top players, we would wake up one morning and Mickey would be gone. Gone back to Port Chester with his winnings. Gone back to the dope world. Back with freshly healed veins, where the dope, for the first week at least, would actually feel good. Back to no pool and anonymity for a few more years, until "Sugar Shack" and myself would dredge him up again and repeat the ritual.

Hall of Famer, "Iron Joe" Procita thought enough of Sailor's aiming system to steal it in toto and sell it to pool students all over the country in the form of a small cardboard aim finder that was also developed by the Sailor.

If you asked Joe Procita about the top players of the day, Joe would say that he had to spot all of them, which he usually did. However, Joe neglected to mention that he also got robbed trying to spot guys like Johnny "Irish" Lineen, and the like. Joe didn't think anybody could play, but Joe gave Sailor his greatest compliment when he confessed — with his head down — that he couldn't spot Sailor anything. That was Procita's highest praise.

Do not confuse this aiming system with the inaccurate drivel routinely displayed in most instruction books — the imaginary cue-ball system. That nonsense has been pounded into our heads ever since Willie Mosconi's instruction book (the red one).

Imaginary cue-ball aiming was even believed and taught by no less then Irving Crane as late as the sixties.

Beard

You my friend, to me , are the greatest story teller of all times (true or not true) you are definetly in The Fat Mans class. Please continue.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

I admit to trying to "steer" the thread, to some form of sensible dialogue...Anything is better than listening to your "cut and paste' replies, to my intelligent and astute observations. (is the truth bragging ?)

I also admit to trying to avoid ANYTHING you bring up. My brain is on overload, just trying to absorb your ranting's, so I'm tuning you out comepletely.

Adios Egolatra Barba

Dick, I hold both you and The Beard in the highest regard, I really do, I also know that the two of you have this love-hate thing going on but you have to admit that The Beard can really lay it down. (story telling) But something tells me that you both have a deeply seeded respect for one another, I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Billy I.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick, I hold both you and The Beard in the highest regard, I really do, I also know that the two of you have this love-hate thing going on but you have to admit that The Beard can really lay it down. (story telling) But something tells me that you both have a deeply seeded respect for one another, I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Billy I.

Bill,

Fred himself, has said he would refuse being acknowledged, only for his books and story-telling, if that were the only way into the HOF.
I have said many times, he is a "top notch" story teller. (It always seems to piss him off)...Its all the other things, that only HE thinks he's good at,...that just leave me completely baffled...(And a little short on the "love" part)..

Confuse-us say;..."He who blows his own horn too much, will eventually run out of wind"....Can't possibly be much longer,...can it ???

 

[vapros]

Dizzy Dean said 'If you can do it, it ain't braggin', or words to that effect. That's baloney. Bragging is bragging, whether you can do it or not. Just sayin'.

 

[wincardona]

Dizzy Dean said 'If you can do it, it ain't braggin', or words to that effect. That's baloney. Bragging is bragging, whether you can do it or not. Just sayin'.

I agree, whether you can do it or not bragging is bragging, but when the "proof is in the pudding" or better yet "when the proof of the pudding is in the eating" it' should be tolerable. Right Fred?

Billy I.

 

[fred bentivegna]

I wuv you?

I wuv you?

Bill,

Fred himself, has said he would refuse being acknowledged, only for his books and story-telling, if that were the only way into the HOF.
I have said many times, he is a "top notch" story teller. (It always seems to piss him off)...Its all the other things, that only HE thinks he's good at,...that just leave me completely baffled...(And a little short on the "love" part)..

Confuse-us say;..."He who blows his own horn too much, will eventually run out of wind"....Can't possibly be much longer,...can it ???

I've said this before, your arrogance in unbounded. If I, as you say, act as if I know everything -- and that's the lie that festers in your puke mind -- where does that leave you? Don't you realize that you easily one-up me in the bragging dept. because you have self-appointed yourself to dispute everything that I say, or say that I know? You always refer to me and what I have to say, in a condescending, "that aint true."way. That's an absolute indication, that in your besotted birdbrain, you "think" that you know more than I "think" I know. That's an ego level that could spot me one hit and the pick.

Plus, I no longer go for that UPS driver of the month crap anymore either. Some anonymous PM'ers confided to me that you actually were only outfitted with a bicycle with a basket on the handlebars.

Beard

...did you wear shorts too?

 

[wincardona]

I've said this before, your arrogance in unbounded. If I, as you say, act as if I know everything -- and that's the lie that festers in your puke mind -- where does that leave you? Don't you realize that you easily one-up me in the bragging dept. because you have self-appointed yourself to dispute everything that I say, or say that I know? You always refer to me and what I have to say, in a condescending, "that aint true."way. That's an absolute indication, that in your besotted birdbrain, you "think" that you know more than I "think" I know. That's an ego level that could spot me one hit and the pick.

Plus, I no longer go for that UPS driver of the month crap anymore either. Some anonymous PM'ers confided to me that you actually were only outfitted with a bicycle with a basket on the handlebars.

Beard

...did you wear shorts too?

OUCH!!

 

[SJDinPHX]

"Besotted birdbrain" you say...Do you realize thats the nicest thing you have said to me, in your last several dozen posts...Billy may be right...I can almost feel the love..

And no, I didn't wear shorts at UPS...they didn't allow them 'til several years "after" I retired. We had to wear those scratchy wool, long brown pants, to toil in this 110 degree weather...I would equate it to the torture you must have felt "going off", on a sweltering, humid day, in the "dungeon"...

So maybe I should learn to be more tolerant, of your repetitious, boastful, name dropping, "delusions of grandeur"...It must have been a brutal "30 years in training"...before somebody taught you to draw your f-ing ball... You do deserve recognition for that...

PS..I implore you (as I have your other homey) to PLEASE learn to "cut and paste"...You could save untold hours at the keyboard...I do not resent what you say, near as much as I detest...how many times you repeat it. (while daintily avoiding the real issues)...You could use the extra time to expand on your "beat list" before you lapse into complete (but sober) senility ...

PPS...I will be expecting a "double OUCH" from you Bill...Fair is fair...

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

OUCH!!

Its good tat people say and exprese themselves wheater is good or bad or negative or positive. Its about how they feel and see things and every one is different and sees things in a different perspictive. People will allways have different opinions and conflict. The worst killer is silence. And when people get into tat state off mind . Iys the begining off the end. And nothing is left in life. Its totale isalation and they give up on life and themselves. And thier hope is all gone. And the end will be sadness and depression. I seen it happen to a friend off mein. And he got do bad e couldnt even talk on the phone any more. And he took his life. Te mind is very powerfull but we have to control it. We cant let it controle us. And the worst thing we can do is too give up. So never give up no matter how bad it gets. And hope will make you stronger. Even if we dont like what people say. They are still motavating us and stimulating us. And if they didnt care they wouldnt say anything. And you can defuse conflict if you think about how to do it. It rakes two people too have conflict not one. And we all love the same thing the game off pool and one pocket. Or we would never comunicate with each other. And if we both love the game then we have something that we both love. Stick and stay and make it pay.

 

[wincardona]

"Besotted birdbrain" you say...Do you realize thats the nicest thing you have said to me, in your last several dozen posts...Billy may be right...I can almost feel the love..

And no, I didn't wear shorts at UPS...they didn't allow them 'til several years "after" I retired. We had to wear those scratchy wool, long brown pants, to toil in this 110 degree weather...I would equate it to the torture you must have felt "going off", on a sweltering, humid day, in the "dungeon"...

So maybe I should learn to be more tolerant, of your repetitious, boastful, name dropping, "delusions of grandeur"...It must have been a brutal "30 years in training"...before somebody taught you to draw your f-ing ball... You do deserve recognition for that...

PS..I implore you (as I have your other homey) to PLEASE learn to "cut and paste"...You could save untold hours at the keyboard...I do not resent what you say, near as much as I detest...how many times you repeat it. (while daintily avoiding the real issues)...You could use the extra time to expand on your "beat list" before you lapse into complete (but sober) senility ...
PPS...I will be expecting a "double OUCH" from you Bill...Fair is fair...

Now that's more like it, I knew you would start to come around. Maybe there is hope after all. Possibly you'll be playing a partner game with The Beard, being one anothers partner.

Billy I.

 

[androd]

Now that's more like it, I knew you would start to come around. Maybe there is hope after all. Possibly you'll be playing a partner game with The Beard, being one anothers partner.

Billy I.

I got a few bucks open on the other side.
Rod.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Now that's more like it, I knew you would start to come around. Maybe there is hope after all. Possibly you'll be playing a partner game with The Beard, being one anothers partner.

Billy I.

Granted, it would be a hugh step up for him...but myself, I would rather wake up every day,...with a dead, decomposing rat in my mouth !...

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Granted, it would be a hugh step up for him...but myself, I would rather wake up every day,...with a dead, decomposing rat in my mouth !...

Billy is my partner in a partners game becuse he loves the tourture I put him in. And in Mobele the were laying 3 to 2 that BIlly was going to have a nourves breackdown. If some body would have filmed that and the coversation. It would have gone dowm as the greatesr tourture game in life. And the one game took 3 and a half houers. And nobody moved or left. Because nobody new who was going to win. And I feel bad that Billy had to go through all that tourture. If you ask him I think he will say that he never went through anything like that in his life. Ricky Bird won and he was the happest hum,an being alive. Billy even took a walk to calm himself down because e couldnt stand swetting the game any more. And it was the most exciting and enteresting game thier. And it will always be rememberd. It was not fun for the betters and sweathers but they staid and the loved the tourture. It was real one pocket not 8 and out. And to be honest even though I lost I enjoyed it. I realy felte like I was playing even though I couldnt make a ball. And when Ricky bird won. It was like he won the world. And he was happy that ir was finaly over. And I told him he will always remember that game. And he will never play a game like that again. And all the sweather were relived when the game ended Becuse the are the witnesses and they said they never seen nothing like that. You couldnt pay people to play a game like that. And it was for real. But I realy felt bad wat Billy had to go through. THe game was a classick by two people who didnt want to win. But they both just wanted the game to keep going and never end. People dont get too see meny games like that. And I am sure Ricky never played a game like that. But I realy enjoyed it. I wish someone woul;d have taped it and they would have learned wat not too do. Ask Billy what he thougt about the game. And then ask Ricky and some off the sweathers. ITs pool without a ending not at its best but at its worst.

 

[CaliRed]

Billy is my partner in a partners game becuse he loves the tourture I put him in. And in Mobele the were laying 3 to 2 that BIlly was going to have a nourves breackdown. If some body would have filmed that and the coversation. It would have gone dowm as the greatesr tourture game in life. And the one game took 3 and a half houers. And nobody moved or left. Because nobody new who was going to win. And I feel bad that Billy had to go through all that tourture. If you ask him I think he will say that he never went through anything like that in his life. Ricky Bird won and he was the happest hum,an being alive. Billy even took a walk to calm himself down because e couldnt stand swetting the game any more. And it was the most exciting and enteresting game thier. And it will always be rememberd. It was not fun for the betters and sweathers but they staid and the loved the tourture. It was real one pocket not 8 and out. And to be honest even though I lost I enjoyed it. I realy felte like I was playing even though I couldnt make a ball. And when Ricky bird won. It was like he won the world. And he was happy that ir was finaly over. And I told him he will always remember that game. And he will never play a game like that again. And all the sweather were relived when the game ended Becuse the are the witnesses and they said they never seen nothing like that. You couldnt pay people to play a game like that. And it was for real. But I realy felt bad wat Billy had to go through. THe game was a classick by two people who didnt want to win. But they both just wanted the game to keep going and never end. People dont get too see meny games like that. And I am sure Ricky never played a game like that. But I realy enjoyed it. I wish someone woul;d have taped it and they would have learned wat not too do. Ask Billy what he thougt about the game. And then ask Ricky and some off the sweathers. ITs pool without a ending not at its best but at its worst.

I don't know if I would have enough memory to record one game,it might eat my 9 days of allotment, but I certainly want to capture some of a game. But I need you to give me a waiver that I can do what I want with it. I'm working on a big project and I'd love to put some of that in it, but only if there's no conditions. I'll have enough to worry about

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Granted, it would be a hugh step up for him...but myself, I would rather wake up every day,...with a dead, decomposing rat in my mouth !...

You know how I'd like to wake up? With you correctly spelling huge just one f@@king time before I die


RBL