Shot Opinions - right, wrong, too aggressive?

stljohnny

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St. Louis, MO
I was just watching some of the 1p action from the weekend on Lenny's UStream site and saw this situation:

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP3IRqK3PKIc2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP3IRqK3PKIc3dRqK3dSPM2dbbt3kKIc3kRRY3kaxm1kbXj2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@[/CUETABLE]

The guys in question are playing even (or maybe 8-7, can't remember right now). From that position click to the 2nd page to see what I would've shot. My question is, how ridiculous is that shot?

The guy at the table shot something completely different (he shot the 9, with a bunch of draw, missed the 9, didn't hide the Q behind the wall and left the guy with a medium-difficultly shot) and sold out the game.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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stljohnny said:
The guys in question are playing even (or maybe 8-7, can't remember right now). From that position click to the 2nd page to see what I would've shot. My question is, how ridiculous is that shot?

The guy at the table shot something completely different (he shot the 9, with a bunch of draw, missed the 9, didn't hide the Q behind the wall and left the guy with a medium-difficultly shot) and sold out the game.

The shot you chose is what I would have shot.

Dennis
 

Dudley

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Yeah I often would play that shot depending on the exact angle and how I'm feeling about my rock.

If I were to shoot the nine and stay uptable I would probably try to break up the wall to get shape to do some damage. With your opponent needing one what do you have to lose???? If you get good shape you can get out...:D
 

stljohnny

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I'm glad to see so many "I'd shoot that." responses. :D

I was wondering because I'm pretty sure the guys in the videos would take me down without a problem and I was questioning if it was my judgment or theirs? hahaha
 

androd

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stljohnny said:
I'm glad to see so many "I'd shoot that." responses. :D

I was wondering because I'm pretty sure the guys in the videos would take me down without a problem and I was questioning if it was my judgment or theirs? hahaha

Johnny, the shot was ok, but you racked the balls at the wrong end of the table. Just looking at page #1 I was having a hard time finding a shot.;)
Rod--------< a nitpicking Virgo.
 

sappo

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Johnny, i dont like your shot. First of all you are a big underdog needing all 4 balls with the 3 balls at the top of the table tied up. I think this is a good position/ opportunity to make something good happen. i would try to break up those balls on this shot, you may not get a better chance. Second, now that youve played your shot as you have indicated what are you going to do next? To sum it up i feel the score and the position of the balls dictate a more aggressive shot here. Sappo
 

jtompilot

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How about drawing the Q and two rail chris cross the the 7. You need all the balls, do a little more to get back in.
 

NH Steve

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jtompilot said:
How about drawing the Q and two rail chris cross the the 7. You need all the balls, do a little more to get back in.
That's what I was thinking about too, but to get a good angle on the 7 for a twice-across to your hole, might be tough without running into the 7. I only like playing for the twice-across bank on the 7-ball if I could get shape for it naturally off the 9-ball, shooting the 9 at close to pocket speed.

If you try to break up those three balls off the 9-ball, then even if you open them up, you're probably not getting anything better than a bank out of the deal because of the angle that the cue ball approaches -- it looks like to me anyway.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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stljohnny said:
I'm glad to see so many "I'd shoot that." responses. :D

I was wondering because I'm pretty sure the guys in the videos would take me down without a problem and I was questioning if it was my judgment or theirs? hahaha
Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that the table is only offering certain options and go with it. Those guys playing in a tournament for hoo-ha probably couldn't care less if a shot cost them the game, it's when you are betting something that the scenario becomes clearer.

In the layout I've posted I've advanced your balls to where they'd be if you made the 9. I've also assumed you are the player going to 8 since you aren't certain that they were playing even. I figure the cut on the 2 ain't all that great so I knock it uptable and let my opponent shoot from distance. He's the weaker player since he's going to 7, give him an opportunity to make a mistake. I'm not saying this is a great spot for you to be in but after you knock the 2 uptable it's not a great spot for him to be in either. Also, when shooting the 9 in the first place it's very possible to get on the 2 for a shot on some tables.

If you're the player going to 7 in this layout and need 4 you should cut the 9 in for the same reasons. If you don't like the shot on the 2 that you leave yourself then just shoot it away and leave distance.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AHBK1BQWi3COJf2DMgM2EUgL3FOKO3GMuP1HPJJ3IRqK1JUoJ2KPJL1LJmJ1MMPK1NSDJ2ORuL3PKIc2QdOw1RdOt3dRqK3dSPM2dbbt3kKIc3kRRY3kaxm1kbXj2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2sVcCGIVING_UP_8-7&ZZ2uCET@1AHBK1BQWi3COJf2DMgM2EUgL3FOKO3GMuP1HPJJ2Ibbt1JUoJ2KPJL1LJmJ1MMPK1NSDJ2ORuL1PbXj2QdOw1RdOt2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2sVcCGIVING_UP_8-7&ZZ2uCET@1AHBK1BQWi3COJf2DMgM2EUgL3FOKO3GMuP1HPJJ2Ibbt1JUoJ2KPJL1LJmJ1MMPK1NSDJ2ORuL1PbXj2QdOw1RdOt1VQWi1VPpr3Vare3VUvE1kbXj1kSjY1kTIj1kWCR2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rSHXOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2sVcCGIVING_UP_8-7&ZZ2uCET@1AHBK3BUvE3COJf2DMgM2EUgL3FOKO3GMuP1HPJJ2Ibbt1JUoJ2KPJL1LJmJ1MMPK1NSDJ2ORuL1PWCR2QdOw1RdOt2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rSHXOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2sVcCGIVING_UP_8-7&ZZ2uCET@[/CUETABLE]
 

gulfportdoc

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stljohnny said:
I was just watching some of the 1p action from the weekend on Lenny's UStream site and saw this situation:

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP3IRqK3PKIc2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP3IRqK3PKIc3dRqK3dSPM2dbbt3kKIc3kRRY3kaxm1kbXj2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@[/CUETABLE]

The guys in question are playing even (or maybe 8-7, can't remember right now). From that position click to the 2nd page to see what I would've shot. My question is, how ridiculous is that shot?
Johnny, what's your reasoning in using inside english on the CB? It seems to me that inside makes the shot a little more difficult. My inclination would be to use some type of left spin, either drawing the CB up to try to break the cluster and leave me a follow up shot, or to go twice across and do the same thing. I'd probably get a one, or two-railer leave out of the deal.

To me, using inside makes the shot more delicate, because I'm bringing the CB closer to the opponent's shot if I miss, and if I over-roll the CB I might leave him a makeable cut or kick for his 2-ball.

Doc
 

wincardona

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Not my choice

Not my choice

Doc's right imo about inside english being wrong exactly for the reasons he mentions, plus if inside english is used and you miss the ball you could leave a return bank combo on the 2 ball.:eek: You need all the balls so you need to play to put yourself IN A BETTER POSITION TO WIN. For instance, what's wrong with using a half of tip of left english and playing position to pocket the 6 ball and leave your opponent behind the 3 ball and 7 ball? He then must come off of the 3 or 7 and give you an option to either pocket another ball or possibly play a bank. Now you're improving your position.:cool: Also by doing this you're putting more pressure on your opponent, and sending him a message that you're a threat to win.;)

Billy I.
 

stljohnny

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St. Louis, MO
I feel fairly confident in cutting the 9 with inside (maybe 70-75%), so i'm not terribly worried about that shot. I am worried about the 2 close to his hole.

The thinking was to get at least one (the 9) and maybe two (and the 2). Then go back a wedge game up-table and see if I can make something happen there.

To me, firing the 9 with outside-draw to break up that cluster has more risk associated to it then just going down-table. Sure, if I miss the 9, I lose the game anyway; but at least (the hope is) that I'd leave a non-standard bank/combo in that situation; whereas if I broke up that cluster and missed the 9, my opponent will have even more options for his last ball.
 

stljohnny

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androd said:
Johnny, the shot was ok, but you racked the balls at the wrong end of the table. Just looking at page #1 I was having a hard time finding a shot.;)
Rod--------< a nitpicking Virgo.

HA! I sure did. It's layed out how I viewed it, I just always forget the CT layout is different. ---< a virgo in a hurry. :p
 

wincardona

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stljohnny said:
I feel fairly confident in cutting the 9 with inside (maybe 70-75%), so i'm not terribly worried about that shot. I am worried about the 2 close to his hole.

The thinking was to get at least one (the 9) and maybe two (and the 2). Then go back a wedge game up-table and see if I can make something happen there.

To me, firing the 9 with outside-draw to break up that cluster has more risk associated to it then just going down-table. Sure, if I miss the 9, I lose the game anyway; but at least (the hope is) that I'd leave a non-standard bank/combo in that situation; whereas if I broke up that cluster and missed the 9, my opponent will have even more options for his last ball.
I do agree with your reasoning, not to fire the 9 ball in with outside draw, in fear of missing the ball. But I still feel that using inside english doesn't offer you the best chance of winning. The shot that I suggested was rolling the 9 ball in with outside english and then shooting the 6 ball in, holding the cue ball behind both the 3 and the 7 ball. Try this shot and take a look at the results, and how the game could develope from that position.

Billy I.
 

SJDinPHX

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wincardona said:
I do agree with your reasoning, not to fire the 9 ball in with outside draw, in fear of missing the ball. But I still feel that using inside english doesn't offer you the best chance of winning. The shot that I suggested was rolling the 9 ball in with outside english and then shooting the 6 ball in, holding the cue ball behind both the 3 and the 7 ball. Try this shot and take a look at the results, and how the game could develope from that position.

Billy I.

I also like that shot Billy, However, it would not be impossible to scratch in the side, (or in your oppnents pocket) traveling that far...But I think that risk is minimal, compared to the reward...I'm goin' for it...:cool:
 

CaliRed

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wincardona said:
I do agree with your reasoning, not to fire the 9 ball in with outside draw, in fear of missing the ball. But I still feel that using inside english doesn't offer you the best chance of winning. The shot that I suggested was rolling the 9 ball in with outside english and then shooting the 6 ball in, holding the cue ball behind both the 3 and the 7 ball. Try this shot and take a look at the results, and how the game could develope from that position.

Billy I.

Say, that's some good thinking there. I like that.. make the 9, don't go all haywire trying to bust up the other balls, don't try making the 9 and worry about not only making the 9 (since your using inside, it's tougher) and worry about how hard your hitting it, as to try and leave him on the rail over by the 2... which he may end up soft kicking it in anyways.

BUT to instead send the 9 down the rail at pocket speed, with a little outside, nothing crazy and playing to make the 6 in next shot and freeze his skinny azz on the 2 pack. You can always get the 2 out next shot, if you don't have a shot at moving something to your pocket and leaving him nothing.

You going to play me 1 game of onepocket cheap (If I win, you got to buy me dinner, if you win, you get to sit with me at dinner:)) at the DCC? I got alot of stuff on my agenda to do, but one of them is to also get to play some of the greats, so I can say I played a game with the legends. I also want to feel the HEAT of what it's like playing from top players with 50+ years of experience.

Whadda say??? Don't be SKEERED !!!!:eek: You're also getting something out of it.. You get to tell your grand and great grand children, you played CaliRed before he went to the great pool hall in the sky:D

PS... I also want you to publicly promise me a interview for my DCC Project (if you didn't read it, it's probably on the 2nd page by now)

Sign here ____________________________________ agrees to give "CaliRed" aka Greg, a uncensored interview for his DCC Project. He promises not to be boring and dry, but to be his usual fun and witty self.;)
 

stljohnny

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wincardona said:
I do agree with your reasoning, not to fire the 9 ball in with outside draw, in fear of missing the ball. But I still feel that using inside english doesn't offer you the best chance of winning. The shot that I suggested was rolling the 9 ball in with outside english and then shooting the 6 ball in, holding the cue ball behind both the 3 and the 7 ball. Try this shot and take a look at the results, and how the game could develope from that position.

Billy I.

Ahhh, I see. I must have misread your original post. I will have to try the shot and see how reliably I can pocket the 9 and leave myself a good angle on the 6 to the hide the CB there. :)
 

SJDinPHX

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Just a small tranqilizer dart...

Just a small tranqilizer dart...

CaliRed said:
Sign here ____________________________________ agrees to give "CaliRed" aka Greg, a uncensored interview for his DCC Project. He promises not to be boring and dry, but to be his usual fun and witty self.;)

Greg,

I suggest you set your sghts a little lower...Mr Incardona rarely "gives" anything away....An interview with him could be costly.

May I suggest someone (anyone) from Chicago...Almost ANY of those guy's , will do almost ANYTHING too ham it up and get on camera...In fact, you may have to impose a "reasonable" time limit, as some of them, may just BRAG your brains out....:cool: :rolleyes: :eek:

PS..You may also have trouble finding a "living legend".., Almost all the top notch player's...are either dead, or have moved West....:eek:
 
Last edited:

Cowboy Dennis

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wincardona said:
You need all the balls so you need to play to put yourself IN A BETTER POSITION TO WIN.
Billy I.
He does not need all of the balls. If he's going to 8 he needs 4 and if he's going to 7 he needs 4.

Inside english is no tougher to use than outside.

If you want to "send a message", use Western Union:) .

You can ALWAYS lose by missing the 9 ball:D .

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP3IRqK3PKIb3dRqK2dbBj2dXIh2dVUB3kKIb3kRBa3kayw4kbyD4kGie2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP2IVUB4PGie2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ2uCET@1BQWi3COJf3FOKO3GMuP2IVUB4PGie3WOJf3WTIi3Wasx1Wchv3bMuP3babC1bchv1bciF4kGie3kKRN2qYeYMy_Pocket:&ZZ1rUtcOpponent_Needs_1:&ZZ4sJEUIT'S_A_HANGER&ZZ2uCET@[/CUETABLE]
 
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