About a minute

[3RAILKICK]

Recently, Hacker made an observation about taking a minute or so to decide on a shot selection in the WWYD's that are posted. IIRC, the point being, that
in a real game...it would/should/could typically take about this long.

Is this a typical decision time frame, choosing among options, that our more accomplished players would use on average, to make a shot choice?

Assuming that this varies given the game circumstances, are you analyzing multiple shot outcomes and responses and then likely responses to the responses?

Do you quickly recognize familiar patterns and layouts and choose a 'right shot' that fits a previous successful formula?

How far into the future do you predict the 'and then' responses that help you decide that first shot?




///


Clearly, I don't 'see' the game progression, like many of you.

I don't 'move'.

I run, hide, try to survive an inning...or try to move several balls (his or mine) or shoot at my hole, since I won't outmove the opponent.

Is the best way to learn to move, to lose and pay attention?



If it takes 30 years of 1P experience to recognize the best shot choice this quickly....I'm screwed.:frus



///


I was watching an older vhs 1P match between Efren and Grady. A couple of times, Efren would shoot, then go stand elsewhere around the table while Grady made his shot selection. Grady would study, then get down on the shot, facing directly at Efren, and shoo Efren from his line of sight.

My take was that, Efren anticipated where Grady meant to shoot and leave him...so he headed over there to wait. I swear there was a little smile on his face as he moved out of the shot line, as Grady waved him away..

 

[jrhendy]

Recently, Hacker made an observation about taking a minute or so to decide on a shot selection in the WWYD's that are posted. IIRC, the point being, that
in a real game...it would/should/could typically take about this long.

Is this a typical decision time frame, choosing among options, that our more accomplished players would use on average, to make a shot choice?

Assuming that this varies given the game circumstances, are you analyzing multiple shot outcomes and responses and then likely responses to the responses?

Do you quickly recognize familiar patterns and layouts and choose a 'right shot' that fits a previous successful formula?

How far into the future do you predict the 'and then' responses that help you decide that first shot?




///


Clearly, I don't 'see' the game progression, like many of you.

I don't 'move'.

I run, hide, try to survive an inning...or try to move several balls (his or mine) or shoot at my hole, since I won't outmove the opponent.

Is the best way to learn to move, to lose and pay attention?



If it takes 30 years of 1P experience to recognize the best shot choice this quickly....I'm screwed.:frus



///


I was watching an older vhs 1P match between Efren and Grady. A couple of times, Efren would shoot, then go stand elsewhere around the table while Grady made his shot selection. Grady would study, then get down on the shot, facing directly at Efren, and shoo Efren from his line of sight.

My take was that, Efren anticipated where Grady meant to shoot and leave him...so he headed over there to wait. I swear there was a little smile on his face as he moved out of the shot line, as Grady waved him away..

I make my shot choices very quickly and usually shoot in less than a minute. This works for me most of the time, but when I second guess my first choice and change shots, I usually hit it poorly and this may be some kind of mental block.

As far as how long it takes, I have been playing one pocket over 50 years and still learn new shots from time to time. You have to put it away in your arsenal of shots and hope you can remember it when it comes up again.

Like all things, the nature of the game itself has changed. I learned to play when you did not show your speed if you could help it and and ran a few balls and then ducked. If you try that now against a good player, once they see they will get more than one chance to fire, you will get hammered with their offensive game.

You have to figure out what works best for you and choose your shot selection wisely. Then of course you have to consider how you match up. A friend of mine from Missouri told me his daddy taught him to always get one ball the best of it, and then one more in case they get lucky. I never could do that, just loved to play too much and still do.

 

[androd]

Is this a typical decision time frame, choosing among options, that our more accomplished players would use on average, to make a shot choice?
For me it is.

Assuming that this varies given the game circumstances, are you analyzing multiple shot outcomes and responses and then likely responses to the responses?
No

Do you quickly recognize familiar patterns and layouts and choose a 'right shot' that fits a previous successful formula?
Yes

How far into the future do you predict the 'and then' responses that help you decide that first shot? The end of my shot





I was watching an older vhs 1P match between Efren and Grady. A couple of times, Efren would shoot, then go stand elsewhere around the table while Grady made his shot selection. Grady would study, then get down on the shot, facing directly at Efren, and shoo Efren from his line of sight.

My take was that, Efren anticipated where Grady meant to shoot and leave him...so he headed over there to wait. I swear there was a little smile on his face as he moved out of the shot line, as Grady waved him away..

Grady was always paranoid. :sorry
P.S. Of course I don't see as far ahead as the Swami's on this site.

 

[Jeff sparks]

Grady was always paranoid. :sorry
P.S. Of course I don't see as far ahead as the Swami's on this site.

Of course Rod considers the immediate reply, even rudimentary skilled players do that, it's a natural thought, the concern of where the best place is to leave the CB at the end of your inning. Average thinkers would always consider their opponents best reply to the position they plan on leaving the CB. Beyond that range of thinking, ( deep thinkers) you would need to consult with Rob, Billie, Tom W., Hendy, Wayne or perhaps others here who might think beyond a reply to your reply.

I can't help you, wish I could though!

And yes, a minute should be long enough IMO, any longer is just prolonging the agony or the ecstasy, because you're either in a death trap or you have so many offensive shots you can't decide which one to shoot!

 

[keoneyo]

When looking north, look south.
When looking east, look west.
Always look from where you came.
Before going where you want to go.

 

[LSJohn]

Always look from where you came.
Before going where you want to go.

Sounds like a curse.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

I think when one learns from a mistake it's good to remember what was learned and forget what taught it.

People who can't turn loose of the past have a terrible cross to bear. I have an ex-wife like that.... no, wait, strike that. I don't remember any of that shit.

“We are products of our past, but we don't have to be prisoners of it.”
― Rick Warren

 

[3RAILKICK]

When looking north, look south.
When looking east, look west.
Always look from where you came.
Before going where you want to go.

Don't get it, but I like it. As well as,


'no ill wind blows for the ship without destination'

...which I think means...I'm rearranging the furniture...my standard reply to most balls favoring the opponent.
:frus

 

[straightback]

When looking north, look south.
When looking east, look west.
Always look from where you came.
Before going where you want to go.

When considering substance, look for a platitude.

 

[androd]

Wow !
I wish I understood any of this.

 

[beatle]

unless i am completely robbing someone if they are taking a minute to look at shots very often it is my last game with them i am quitting winner or loser.

 

[keoneyo]

Don't get it, but I like it. As well as,


'no ill wind blows for the ship without destination'

...which I think means...I'm rearranging the furniture...my standard reply to most balls favoring the opponent.
:frus

Yep you get it.
You either do or you don't.

 

[keoneyo]

When considering substance, look for a platitude.

I always been straight with you Dan. Why you being so crooked with me?

 

[straightback]

I always been straight with you Dan. Why you being so crooked with me?

I thought that was funny! (I was adding a line to your aphorism.)

 

[Cory in dc]

unless i am completely robbing someone if they are taking a minute to look at shots very often it is my last game with them i am quitting winner or loser.

I can't disagree with you. But I read this thread to be about how long you should take to shoot in the types of situations posted in WWYDs, not in typical situations. I don't begrudge someone, or myself, a full minute or so in a tight spot. As long as the regular situations are < 20, maybe < 30, seconds.

Tricky situations that warrant a minute probably happen 0-2 times in a typical game among evenly matched players, as a guess.

 

[lll]

I always been straight with you Dan. Why you being so crooked with me?

I thought that was funny! (I was adding a line to your aphorism.)

dan
im in keoneyo camp
your remarks come off aggressive (at least to me) without a smiley face to show you are teasing
in language you understand
GOVERN YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY..... ( note smilely face)

 

[lfigueroa]

Without a doubt there are some situations that require due consideration.

A few days ago I was playing a serious opponent and he put me in a spot with a ball near his hole where I was blocked up table by two other balls. It took me several minutes of studying and at one point I apologized and said, "I'm sorry. I just don't know what to do."

Finally it dawned on me what the right shot was: a tiny draw off a ball on the end rail, to behind a blocking ball but it took me a long time to see it.

Normally, I get out of the chair and walk straight to the shot -- 30 seconds or less.

Lou Figueroa

 

[darmoose]

I think about a minute is appropriate. Most players I've observed take that and more at times. Certainly the pros take their time if they are in a tough match.

After all, this ain't nine ball.

Personally, while I like to play with some tempo, I don't mind my opponent taking whatever time he needs. I look at it as commentary on the predicament he's in, and find that watching him squirm and stutter is most enjoyable.:heh:heh

In my room there are a few players who like to go fast, and complain about those who don't. They are invariably shooters, who never consider that they might miss. They also can't understand why they lose to someone at one pocket that they give the 7 and 8 to at nine ball. Go figure.:lol:lol

 

[keoneyo]

I used to watch Efren and he would have a shot 2ft from the pocket straight in and he would take the longest time. I was wondering whats the problem just shoot it in.
After a while I matured in my game I realized he was looking for the pattern to run 8 and out. Similar to what we are taught in 8 ball and 14.1. Start from the end, find the key ball, the key ball to the key ball, insurance balls, etc. Pattern play.
Then it made much more sense for me to see why its necessary to take time.
Not looking at just the shot but looking to win.

 

[NH Steve]

I think a minute at a real table is more than adequate 99% of the time -- but with the WWYD's it takes a little extra time to map out accurately the ball positions, often looking at several views (thank you Ghost). Also, you are coming in cold, so you also have to find out what the score is, who's shot it is, which is your pocket -- all things that are easy or you already know when you are in the middle of a real game. So a minute might be a challenge...

 

[Tennessee Joe6]

The WWYD situations are not in 3 dimensions so it takes longer to see if a ball can go past another ball, especially banks.