What Are Your Thoughts

Cowboy Dennis

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ref the hard break in one pocket? Is there a place for it or should a revision of rules be considered similar to that which prevents a nine ball player from soft breaking his opponent (4 balls contacting rail). Ask yourself how you would feel if 15-20% of players at next yrs DCC used a version of the hard break; are you ok with that or not?

Being the "favorite" isn't the determining factor. The determining factor is whether or not you feel you're the favorite to make everything and anything you shoot at.

Mind you, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm not saying "open" is the move at ALL. All I'm saying is it changes the dynamic of the game for someone who possesses HEAVY firepower against someone who possesses superior knowledge and movement. That's all I'm saying. It's soooo not cut-and-dry the way many of you have positioned it.

For example, some of you have been playing one hole for many, many decades... prob as long as Danny Smith has been alive and likely possess superior knowledge of the game. That said, I'd bet my entire life savings that he'd destroy 99% of you while breaking open.

That, in itself, is the core discussion.

Actually the core discussion was posted in the OP's post #1 which was pointless to begin with.

I'll say for the record that anyone who open breaks or 1 rail kicks a break in a one-pocket match is an idiot unless he's stealing. Only an idiot does either.

Dennis
 

straightback

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Actually the core discussion was posted in the OP's post #1 which was pointless to begin with.

I'll say for the record that anyone who open breaks or 1 rail kicks a break in a one-pocket match is an idiot unless he's stealing. Only an idiot does either.

Dennis

Even if you were stealing, it would be stupid to flaunt it at the guy by blastin' 'em. The mere fact Danny Smith won a game doing this (against an admittedly dogged Chris Gentile) doesn't really mean ANYTHING.

Yeah, you can change the dynamic of the game a bit, but you can't escape statistics very long - that siren call of the "mean" is too strong, even for outliers like Danny Smith.
 

spiderwebcomm

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What Are Your Thoughts

The "conviction" I stand by is that I would win more games against him if he broke wide open than if he played a traditional opening. And since the only time I'd be playing him would be in a tournament with short races, I like him using a wide open break.

Hard to believe I have to explain that, even to you.

Lou Figueroa
What do you think your run avg is from an open break? Just curious.
 

jrhendy

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Changes in one pocket

Changes in one pocket

Keeping your opponent off balance seems to be working well for the new breed of one pocket players. Seems like throwing in a little curve like a hard break once and a while fits their style.

Starting with Efren and his superior skills to the new runout group, the game is constantly becoming more offensive, and this is on tighter tables than our older champions played on.

Scott Frost can probably be credited for starting the new style a few years back, but there seems to be new ones popping up all the time, and with the growing popularity of he game, who knows where it will end.

It is a good time to be a one pocket fan with all the great players and the streams and commentary available to us on a regular basis by the hard working guys bringing it all to us.
 

lfigueroa

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What do you think your run avg is from an open break? Just curious.



Absolutely no idea.

However, given the same opponent breaking wide open and breaking traditionally, I don't believe it is unreasonable to believe my average would be higher against the open break.

Lou Figueroa
what is so hard
about this?!
 

LSJohn

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It is a good time to be a one pocket fan with all the great players and the streams and commentary available to us on a regular basis by the hard working guys bringing it all to us.

Amen, brother.

Besides the exceptional entertainment, I would have never figured out half of what I think I know if I'd had to do it on my own or by watching the little bit of live play I could have managed to be present for.
 

LSJohn

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Absolutely no idea.

However, given the same opponent breaking wide open and breaking traditionally, I don't believe it is unreasonable to believe my average would be higher against the open break.

Lou Figueroa

Of course. The question isn't whether you could beat a top player -- or anybody else -- who is breaking wide open, but whether you'd do better.

Like you, I don't see how there can be any doubt what the answer is.
 

lfigueroa

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Of course. The question isn't whether you could beat a top player -- or anybody else -- who is breaking wide open, but whether you'd do better.

Like you, I don't see how there can be any doubt what the answer is.


Well, in this case it helps to know whom you're dealing with.

Lou Figueroa
 

spiderwebcomm

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What Are Your Thoughts

Well, in this case it helps to know whom you're dealing with.

Lou Figueroa
Your performance in open vs "not" is a curve on a graph, based on firepower versus one pocket knowledge.

Your knowledge is such that you're allowed to win games against great players in a traditional sense, but you might find you get run over in a non-traditional sense because if your run avg is, say, 4 from an open position, you may never-ever get another 4 balls against a player with a .50cal ball-making ability who no longer needs on indian guide on what to do and where to leave the ball.

The answer isn't a constant, as you're implying, and can be easily demonstrated if someone like Danny or Shane was willing to help you test your theory.

I'm referring to games won, not balls won.
 

lfigueroa

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Your performance in open vs "not" is a curve on a graph, based on firepower versus one pocket knowledge.

Your knowledge is such that you're allowed to win games against great players in a traditional sense, but you might find you get run over in a non-traditional sense because if your run avg is, say, 4 from an open position, you may never-ever get another 4 balls against a player with a .50cal ball-making ability who no longer needs on indian guide on what to do and where to leave the ball.

The answer isn't a constant, as you're implying, and can be easily demonstrated if someone like Danny or Shane was willing to help you test your theory.

I'm referring to games won, not balls won.


If you don't get it you don't get it.

With a wide open table, which you rarely see against a high powered player, your odds of getting an eight and out, or even five or six balls, go way up. You get what you can, go for the trap, and drive the balls up table. It's not rocket science.

If you can run a few you're going to win more games than if the same player breaks safe against you and the balls start out on his side.

As an amateur who has won his share of games against pros, in a short race, any player that wants to break wide open against me can goferit.

Lou Figueroa
 

jrhendy

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Hard Break

Hard Break

The "conviction" I stand by is that I would win more games against him if he broke wide open than if he played a traditional opening. And since the only time I'd be playing him would be in a tournament with short races, I like him using a wide open break.

Hard to believe I have to explain that, even to you.

Lou Figueroa

If the hard break is executed properly (calling the pocket on the side you are breaking from), you are looking at all the balls spread and the cue ball uptable near the rail. While you may have some kind of offensive shot 50/60% of the time, if you don't execute, a superior opponent will either get out or at least run several balls. Even if you choose and execute a safe play, the balls are still out there for your opponent to run when they beat you to the shot.

Yes you have a little better chance against a better player if they choose the hard break, but IMO not as much as you think. Set it up and try it yourself ten times. I think you will be surprised at the results.
 

lfigueroa

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If the hard break is executed properly (calling the pocket on the side you are breaking from), you are looking at all the balls spread and the cue ball uptable near the rail. While you may have some kind of offensive shot 50/60% of the time, if you don't execute, a superior opponent will either get out or at least run several balls. Even if you choose and execute a safe play, the balls are still out there for your opponent to run when they beat you to the shot.

Yes you have a little better chance against a better player if they choose the hard break, but IMO not as much as you think. Set it up and try it yourself ten times. I think you will be surprised at the results.


I said, as did you, the odds were better. I'd welcome any player breaking that way.

That's it.

And, I've played around with it and participated in the challenge at the DCC, kept score for pro players doing it, so I have a feel for how it goes. No surprises.

Lou Figueroa
 

spiderwebcomm

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What Are Your Thoughts

I said, as did you, the odds were better. I'd welcome any player breaking that way.

That's it.

And, I've played around with it and participated in the challenge at the DCC, kept score for pro players doing it, so I have a feel for how it goes. No surprises.

Lou Figueroa
So whats your ball run avg from the get go?
 

spiderwebcomm

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What Are Your Thoughts

If you don't get it you don't get it.

With a wide open table, which you rarely see against a high powered player, your odds of getting an eight and out, or even five or six balls, go way up. You get what you can, go for the trap, and drive the balls up table. It's not rocket science.

If you can run a few you're going to win more games than if the same player breaks safe against you and the balls start out on his side.

As an amateur who has won his share of games against pros, in a short race, any player that wants to break wide open against me can goferit.

Lou Figueroa
Well, next time I see you, you have action with a collection of players with a wide open break. Bet up some of that Barton cash.
 

lfigueroa

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Well, next time I see you, you have action with a collection of players with a wide open break. Bet up some of that Barton cash.


If it's one thing I don't need help with it's matching up. I can get myself in plenty of trouble on my own.

Lou Figueroa
 

spiderwebcomm

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What Are Your Thoughts

If it's one thing I don't need help with it's matching up. I can get myself in plenty of trouble on my own.

Lou Figueroa
I bet.... i guess when a nit like me sticks his neck out, any retard can read the tell. Good read, troublemaker.
 
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