frost vs efren again

bstroud

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He could roll the cue ball up on the 14? and take a scratch or he could go rail first off the side rail, hit the 2 ball and end up on the 14.

Whatever shot he choses he will probably take an intentional scratch.

Bill S.
 

Tom Wirth

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How can you guys tell what ball is what? I can't make heads or tails out of the numbers. As a result, I don't understand what shots you are trying to illustrate for us. Help me out please. :)

I will try to explain the shot I see on first glance in this situation. Not that my choice is a better option than either of yours. If I understood what you guys are explaining I might agree that you have great shots working. Shots better than my choice here.

There are two balls, one behind the other just behind the foot spot. It should not be difficult to roll off the left side of the first of those two balls and drift to the side rail. A half ball hit should work nicely sending the cue ball on a very predictable line. The second of these two balls will drop down to the bottom rail which will help prevent a bank on the loose dark colored ball a few inches up from the center diamond. This shot will also free up another ball or two on our side of the table. That ball being the striped ball to the right of the ball near the foot spot. It won't move far but it will move enough to help the cause. There very well might be better options here. This is just one option which eliminates the need for an intentional scratch or a risky kick shot which could result in a pocket scratch.

Tom
 

wincardona

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Strouds shot with rolling on the 14ball and taking a scratch is Imo not a good option because it doesn't help you. Plus it allows your opponent to put you back in trouble shooting off the 2ball. However, his second option with going rail first and then into the 2ball is an excellent shot...providing you excel at the kicking game.

Eagles shot with banking the 15ball is an option but a very risky one. Plus there's no guarantee with his shot that you're going to advance a ball toward your pocket enough to create a problem for your opponent. Risk against return ..not my choice.

Tom's shot if it plays out like described is an excellent shot. Fairly low risk shot that carries a possible position changing result.

If none of the mentioned options are appealing and you're looking for something simple...why not roll in the 2ball? Looks to be a safe shot if hit with the proper speed, and if missed your opponent will be preoccupied with moving it on his next shot. Looks like an option to me.

Dr. Bill
 

Jimmy B

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Looks like plenty of room to go thru the gap and leave him here. My diagram is not accurate though. The seven will not really go over to the left that far but as long as you don't go up against the nine and leave a kiss off bank or something. But I like Toms shot and I bet that is what Efren shot...
 

backplaying

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Looks like plenty of room to go thru the gap and leave him here. My diagram is not accurate though. The seven will not really go over to the left that far but as long as you don't go up against the nine and leave a kiss off bank or something. But I like Toms shot and I bet that is what Efren shot...

You will be in a worse spot on the next shot from there. Most likely in the stack.
 

backplaying

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Strouds shot with rolling on the 14ball and taking a scratch is Imo not a good option because it doesn't help you. Plus it allows your opponent to put you back in trouble shooting off the 2ball. However, his second option with going rail first and then into the 2ball is an excellent shot...providing you excel at the kicking game.

Eagles shot with banking the 15ball is an option but a very risky one. Plus there's no guarantee with his shot that you're going to advance a ball toward your pocket enough to create a problem for your opponent. Risk against return ..not my choice.

Tom's shot if it plays out like described is an excellent shot. Fairly low risk shot that carries a possible position changing result.

If none of the mentioned options are appealing and you're looking for something simple...why not roll in the 2ball? Looks to be a safe shot if hit with the proper speed, and if missed your opponent will be preoccupied with moving it on his next shot. Looks like an option to me.

Dr. Bill

If you miss the 2 ball, it looks like you will give up a shot on the 7.
 

Tom Wirth

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Dr. Bill,
I see potential trouble with rolling the two ball (if that is the ball straight in Efren's pocket). First, if the two is pocketed what then? How do you play safe from the position you leave yourself? Second, if you intentionally hang the ball in the hole you are still in trouble. You now have nothing on your side of the table to use as a guard and the defensive shot from your opponent leaves you open to many ugly responses.

I agree with you that Bill S' rail first shot on the two is a great option for someone like Efren as well as he sees this kind of shots. Not so good for the rest of humanity. By going rail first the angle of deflection changes, and should he accually make the ball he very well might get shape on that (one ball; nine ball?) anyway the little yellow sucker sitting open on his side of the table. If he misses the two, provided he gets close, he may just hide the two and be safe anyway.

Good choice Mr. Stroud.

Tom
 
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Tom Wirth

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This is the shot I see, but you have to get behind the 9 or the 10.

I take it that the fifteen is the striped ball resting along the third diamond on the side rail. This shot is far too difficult to pull off for my money. In this I am in total agreement with Dr. Bill. There is little advantage to this shot and the cue ball must be hit quite softly so as to allow it to drift behind the nine or ten. Anything could happen rolling the cue such a long distance to make such a fine hit. Should the cue ball roll off even slightly you will sell out one way or the other. Shots of this kind are not to my liking unless I have a great deal of margin of error working in my favor. Here there is none.

Sorry guys,

Tom
 
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Jimmy B

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You will be in a worse spot on the next shot from there. Most likely in the stack.



Good call BP. I just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention. That's why I said it should be Tom Wirth's shot. This was to show people that not only must you avoid leaving a shot, but you also cannot leave the cue ball where they will just bury you. Some of you are showing marked improvement and it's so rewarding to me. Now please sir, move to the head of the class. I can tell that you are quite the player. (seriously)
 

SloMoHolic

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frost vs efren again

Good call BP. I just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention. That's why I said it should be Tom Wirth's shot. This was to show people that not only must you avoid leaving a shot, but you also cannot leave the cue ball where they will just bury you. Some of you are showing marked improvement and it's so rewarding to me. Now please sir, move to the head of the class. I can tell that you are quite the player. (seriously)

Great post, Jimmy!

That's what I love about 1P.

You can't leave a clear shot.
You can't leave a bank.
You can't leave an easy safe.
You can't let your opponent clear your pocket.
You can't let your opponent put you in jail.
You can't let your opponent clear your potential banks.

To me, the beauty of the game is disallowing the aforementioned situations, while also advancing your own position.

All I can say is, WOW, what a great game!

-Blake

PS knowing all those things versus being able to execute them is where it's at. :)
 

NH Steve

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Another possibility is going half ball off the ball near the foot spot. I would probably drop the cue ball to the bottom rail, counting on the 3-ball to come down and block banks -- Efren would carry the cue ball a little further to tie it up under those other two balls :)
 

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onepockethacker

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I like taking an intentional and softly kicking 2 rails behind the 9 ball and come up and bump the 14 ball( or is it the 10 ball) leaving him doubled up on the 6 and 7 ball.
 

tylerdurden

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Hacker is going to attack me for choosing this, but if that 3 ball combo on the 1 is looking good he is going. It looks so good to me, but these angles can be real funky I know. The cb will probably go right toward scott's hole, which is juicy. The first ball in the 3 ball combo will kinda stay there, the cb follows off of it to a really good spot. If the one dont go he'll be in bad shape, but he'll be in real bad shape no matter what he does here. If that thing aint even close to on I just wasted my breath.
 

onepockethacker

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Hacker is going to attack me for choosing this, but if that 3 ball combo on the 1 is looking good he is going. It looks so good to me, but these angles can be real funky I know. The cb will probably go right toward scott's hole, which is juicy. The first ball in the 3 ball combo will kinda stay there, the cb follows off of it to a really good spot. If the one dont go he'll be in bad shape, but he'll be in real bad shape no matter what he does here. If that thing aint even close to on I just wasted my breath.

You are describing Steves shot pretty much and if you hit a real good there are great rewards BUT if your cueball ends up on the end rail and your opponent can see the 7 ball or 1 ball you bring down you are screwed. Thats the reason I like taking an intentional going behind the 9 ball 2 rails and coming up from behind and bumping the 14 ball? So he will be doubled up on the 6 and 7 balls and basicall touching the 14 ball from underneath
 

Miller

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Another possibility is going half ball off the ball near the foot spot. I would probably drop the cue ball to the bottom rail, counting on the 3-ball to come down and block banks -- Efren would carry the cue ball a little further to tie it up under those other two balls :)

this is the shot i like also. it looks like an "efren shot".
:)
 

Tom Wirth

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Another possibility is going half ball off the ball near the foot spot. I would probably drop the cue ball to the bottom rail, counting on the 3-ball to come down and block banks -- Efren would carry the cue ball a little further to tie it up under those other two balls :)

Nice shot Steve, however it is not necessary to drop the cue ball to the bottom rail. By leaving the cue ball along the side rail you eliminate the possibility of giving up a bank or any easy path to the opposite side of the table.

Tom
 

lll

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tom same shot as steves diagram but stopping on the side rail isnt that the shot you described in post #4??
 
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