D. Appleton vs. J. Miller 2012 Tunica

[onepockethacker]

I am not so sure it was a game winning shot (quite yet ) -- Appleton wacked it so hard he didn't leave anything near his hole that wasn't already there. Can't Miller just put Appleton back on the side rail off the 14 -- or even the 3-ball if the 3-ball blocks him from hitting the 14?

Had I played the 14 off the 10, I would have been hitting it pocket speed for the 14 -- aiming for a light clip of the 10 and burying the cue ball on the 11, not letting it go forward. The 10 would not have cleared the area my way, but I would be more assured of a good strong threat on my side to go along with the 15 (ball up 14 and ball down 15), and I would have nudged the 10 ball a little (hopefully).

The shot didn't lay like that Steve. You couldn't hit the 14 ball and catch the 10 ball AND put the cueball on the 11 ball. To catch the top of the 10 ball coming off the side rail with the 14 ball the 14 ball had to be hit a hair left of center meaning you cant put the cueball on the 11 ball. IF that was possible that would definitely be the shot without question but it didn't lay that way. That is why i said follow through off the 3 ball and down toward the pocket.
As far as millers next shot... NOW he has to be real worried about leaving darren a crack at the 8/12 combo or a bank on the 2 ball. Also shooting the 14 ball to your side and leaving the cueball on the rail like you show... Darren can bank the 9 ball into the 6 ball or the 15 ball and draw into the 4 ball coming to rest on the 11 ball. That shot Darren just shot did ALOT more damage than you realize.

 

[NH Steve]

The shot didn't lay like that Steve. You couldn't hit the 14 ball and catch the 10 ball AND put the cueball on the 11 ball. To catch the top of the 10 ball coming off the side rail with the 14 ball the 14 ball had to be hit a hair left of center meaning you cant put the cueball on the 11 ball. IF that was possible that would definitely be the shot without question but it didn't lay that way. That is why i said follow through off the 3 ball and down toward the pocket.
As far as millers next shot... NOW he has to be real worried about leaving darren a crack at the 8/12 combo or a bank on the 2 ball. Also shooting the 14 ball to your side and leaving the cueball on the rail like you show... Darren can bank the 9 ball into the 6 ball or the 15 ball and draw into the 4 ball coming to rest on the 11 ball. That shot Darren just shot did ALOT more damage than you realize.

I don't know -- he repositioned one key ball -- the 10 -- granted an important ball. Got lucky as could be doing it too, lol.

 

[wincardona]

The shot didn't lay like that Steve. You couldn't hit the 14 ball and catch the 10 ball AND put the cueball on the 11 ball. To catch the top of the 10 ball coming off the side rail with the 14 ball the 14 ball had to be hit a hair left of center meaning you cant put the cueball on the 11 ball. IF that was possible that would definitely be the shot without question but it didn't lay that way. That is why i said follow through off the 3 ball and down toward the pocket.
As far as millers next shot... NOW he has to be real worried about leaving darren a crack at the 8/12 combo or a bank on the 2 ball. Also shooting the 14 ball to your side and leaving the cueball on the rail like you show... Darren can bank the 9 ball into the 6 ball or the 15 ball and draw into the 4 ball coming to rest on the 11 ball. That shot Darren just shot did ALOT more damage than you realize.

I believe Miller can elevate and bank the 3ball straight back, and play position. That is providing the 8 and 12ball aren't lined up, which it doesn't look like they are. I would use left english, at around 9:30 on the cue ball, and aim to hit a full ball (slightly to the right on the 3ball)without trying to draw the cue ball. That type of hit should move the cue ball to the left of where it sits now and could create a great offensive opportunity for Miller. The key to this shot is to hit the 3ball full or very slightly to the right of center. This type of hit will allow Miller to control the cue ball without the fear of it squirting to the left. The slight hit to the right of center on the 3ball will negate the the left movement with the cue ball after contact. The 3ball should still throw to the right with a chance to pocket it, and the cue ball may be in line for a shot on the 9ball.

Dr. Bill

 

[onepockethacker]

I believe Miller can elevate and bank the 3ball straight back, and play position. That is providing the 8 and 12ball aren't lined up, which it doesn't look like they are. I would use left english, at around 9:30 on the cue ball, and aim to hit a full ball without trying to draw the cue ball. That type of hit should move the cue ball to the left of where it sits now and could create a great offensive opportunity for Miller.

Dr. Bill

That's tue but if he doesn't make it Miller will end up with the worst of the exchange. When the cueball moves over to the left Darren will probably have the 9 ball bank into the 15 ball or hit the 8?12 ball combo and freeze on the balls. I don't like Miller's end of this but then again he is a bank monster

 

[wincardona]

That's tue but if he doesn't make it Miller will end up with the worst of the exchange. When the cueball moves over to the left Darren will probably have the 9 ball bank into the 15 ball or hit the 8?12 ball combo and freeze on the balls. I don't like Miller's end of this but then again he is a bank monster

Don't forget that Darren will still have to contend with the missed 3ball. I understand that Miller is in deep stuff, and it doesn't look good for him unless he does something special.

Dr. Bill

 

[backplaying]

I would shoot the 10 and draw it back on the 9, or if its not froze kick the 15 in. The only other shot I see is taking a foul and leaving it down table.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I am not so sure it was a game winning shot (quite yet ) -- Appleton wacked it so hard he didn't leave anything near his hole that wasn't already there. Can't Miller just put Appleton back on the side rail off the 14 -- or even the 3-ball if the 3-ball blocks him from hitting the 14?

This shot that Steve shows is exactly what Miller shot. Appleton accomplished nothing except for moving the 10 and risking the game to do so.

 

[SJDinPHX]

This shot that Steve shows is exactly what Miller shot. Appleton accomplished nothing except for moving the 10 and risking the game to do so.

View attachment 7588

As straight as Darren shoots...Why didn't he cut the 10 in (or toward his hole) and LH side spin, the cue ball right back to where Miller put it ??? If he can get it close to the side rail, he's REALLY got Miller in trouble..<---IGNORE !!!!

NEVER MIND !...I See RBL has put up another "yawner"...Plus he hasn't numbered any of the balls, or labled the pockets,..(since the very first 'Greensh*t)...I'd forgotten which hole is whose.

Denise...Don't invite me back, ever again..:frus

 

[onepockethacker]

Hey Steve, Miller shot your shot.. just a survival shot. If Miller just left his cueball where the diagram is showing Miller is screwed as long as darren executes. Look on the bright side Steve I dont think you have seen this video so its not bad that you don't see what trouble Miller is in. Anyone who has seen it and still cant tell... well that's a different story.

 

[NH Steve]

Hey Steve, Miller shot your shot.. just a survival shot. If Miller just left his cueball where the diagram is showing Miller is screwed as long as darren executes. Look on the bright side Steve I dont think you have seen this video so its not bad that you don't see what trouble Miller is in. Anyone who has seen it and still cant tell... well that's a different story.

You're right I have not seen the video. But just for discussion, would you not agree that Darren hit his clear out shot way too hard? I know it worked out well, but would it not have worked out a lot better if he could have hit it soft enough to leave something more on his own side down low? Darren's whole concept for the shot appears to have been to blast the 10 ball out of there at all costs. To me, that kind of blast shot should be more of a last resort when other more managed shots are not available and you are in real trouble. Or, when you can be reasonably assured that your cue ball cover is going to safely avoid getting blown up by errant balls. Like you said yourself, he had other options there. Like I said, Darren sure was fortunate his cue ball cover was not blown. And he didn't gather anything new low on his side because he hit it so hard. Those are the two things I don't like about his shot choice (considering the way he hit it -- hard).

 

[onepockethacker]

You're right I have not seen the video. But just for discussion, would you not agree that Darren hit his clear out shot way too hard? I know it worked out well, but would it not have worked out a lot better if he could have hit it soft enough to leave something more on his own side down low? Darren's whole concept for the shot appears to have been to blast the 10 ball out of there at all costs. To me, that kind of blast shot should be more of a last resort when other more managed shots are not available and you are in real trouble. Or, when you can be reasonably assured that your cue ball cover is going to safely avoid getting blown up by errant balls. Like you said yourself, he had other options there. Like I said, Darren sure was fortunate his cue ball cover was not blown. And he didn't gather anything new low on his side because he hit it so hard. Those are the two things I don't like about his shot choice (considering the way he hit it -- hard).

Like I said just because someone doesn't hit a shot 100% accurate(which includes speed) doesn't mean it wasn't the right shot. Darren has not been playing one pocket all that long and the speed that he hit the shot shows that. What allows him to finish as strong as he does in tournaments is his overall ability. That is why I said I would follow the cueball forward off the 3 ball down by Millers pocket. The closer the cueball is to the pocket the less chance of leaving a shot of there is a collision. Guess what Scott Frost is the best today right?(at least everyone thinks so) you dont think Scott gets away with shots like this? I think it was Grady(god rest his soul) who used to say something like..one pocket cannot be played at the highest level without calculated high risk, high reward shots or at great peril... The funny thing about this site is everyone is a results are final person... In other words if darren hit this shot better and the 14 ball went off the top of the 10 ball and made the 15 ball and the cueball followed forward and he ran alot of balls everyone would be saying wow what a great shot but since he got a kiss everyone says wow lucky.. LMFAO Look at the shot Corey Duel played against Putnam in the other thread... Corey thinned a ball and then came 3 rails and froze Putnam on a ball/stack and everyone says WOW!! what s shot, meanwhile if the cueball leaked out and he missed the stack and Putnam did damage then everyone would be saying..What the hell was Corey thinking? .. Same shot but different results... Darren was in a bad spot and he changed the game around. That 10 ball was ALOT better ball for Miller than the 15 ball is for Darren

 

[tylerdurden]

^Well, it is a little harder at times to be negative for some of us. I'll just say for the record I thought that 3 rail shot corey shot was horrible. I mean really really a bad shot... thought that the moment I saw that, but why post so negative I figure. It is hard to say that I guess because he has a different execution ability than me, but even then I can see you don't shoot that and consistently get the money.

 

[jtompilot]

This shot that Steve shows is exactly what Miller shot. Appleton accomplished nothing except for moving the 10 and risking the game to do so.

View attachment 7588

That 9 ball looks really nice from there, with a little bump on the 4 and the qb in the cluster or just follow the qb to the foot rail depending on the angle.

The 14 was pretty lame with the 9 there. I think I would have shot the 3.

 

[onepockethacker]

That 9 ball looks really nice from there, with a little bump on the 4 and the qb in the cluster or just follow the qb to the foot rail depending on the angle.

The 14 was pretty lame with the 9 there. I think I would have shot the 3.

Look at post #41 I saw this coming from before he shot. You are right about the 9 ball. Thats why they call this chess on a pool table. You have to be able to see what your opponents response will be before you shoot your shot in most cases. When your at the table you have to be able to recognize all this in a few seconds(someone around here has he benefit of watching the tapes and still gets it wrong)

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

As straight as Darren shoots...Why didn't he cut the 10 in (or toward his hole) and LH side spin, the cue ball right back to where Miller put it ??? If he can get it close to the side rail, he's REALLY got Miller in trouble..<---IGNORE !!!!

NEVER MIND !...I See RBL has put up another "yawner"...Plus he hasn't numbered any of the balls, or labled the pockets,..(since the very first 'Greensh*t)...I'd forgotten which hole is whose.

Denise...Don't invite me back, ever again..:frus

What happened Duckbreath? Run out of Yukon Jack and it scared you sober enough to respond to a thread that's been here for 3 days? What a dope:frus.

Darren sure played a lot better on that table in your garage with the 5 1/2" pockets didn't he? Or maybe it was just cuz he was playing your neighbor's daughter that he looked so good at the table. I'm gonna have to find that DVD and post a few pics from it otherwise nobody would ever believe that you singlehandedly took a top poolplayer and completely ruined his one-pocket game so quickly and so thoroughly.

It's a good thing you were delivering mail in 1986 or maybe you would've ruined Efren's game too but look how that turned out with the right lessons in Chi-Town.

P.S. I almost labeled the balls when they started calling the 12 ball the 13 ball but I figured f@@k 'em, if they can't tell pink from orange then they can't tell the 5 ball from an orange either. LOLROTFLMFAO.

CBD

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Ha ha -- came out great but looking at Dennis's lines for the way the balls went, holy sh*t the 14 and the 10 both could easily have blown his cue ball cover all to hell. I love the results but it was definitely too haphazard for my taste -- given much more controlled choices were readily available.

Steve,

There are many things to like about the shot Daz shot after the break. You get to hit it with a little speed, it's almost straight, not too much thinking involved, the cueball probably floats into the 3 each time and towards relative safety. The 14 & 10 usually go in opposite directions and away from his pocket. It's a one-pocket player's "get out of jail free" card many times but not always.

The bad things are these; You're slightly jacked-up near a rail, coming in from a shallow angle (with the 14), any mis-hit can send the 10 ball right at the place you intend to put the cueball possibly selling out. If you attempt to carom the 14 off the 10 towards your pocket there is a strong chance of not even hitting the 10 ball from that angle so that shot is out. You must make certain to hit enough of the 10 ball so it moves somewhere, this means hitting it fuller and this is where problems begin.

Here are a few possibilites:

This 1st shot would be an accident from here, it's too easy to miss the 10 completely if you played this shot.




This 2nd shot is more likely but the 10 ball is going more towards the cueball.




This 3rd shot is what might happen if you hit the 10 a little less full than Appleton did. Nothing wrong with it but the 10 still moves to where you are sending the cueball.




This 4th shot is an easy possibility.




This 14/10 double-kiss is also a real possibility and in fact they may have very slightly double-kissed when Daz shot his shot but it was very slight if at all. I couldn't tell for certain so I didn't mention it. This also sends the 14 at the cueball but sends the 10 ball your way.




These are just 5 of the most likely scenarios that can come up on this shot, I'm sure there are several that we couldn't even predict. All in all this isn't a bad shot that Daz shot and I would have shot it too if I was gambling but in a tournament, playing 3 out of 5, I may have played a safety and waited. Like you said, he had several shots available to him.

P.S. Try setting up the cueball, 14 ball, 10 ball and the 3 & 5 balls and shoot this shot a few times. Try to play the cueball safe off the 3 and try bank the 10 into the cueball after the 14 hits it. You'll see how tough it is to do and the reason is this; the 10 ball and the cueball are crossing at roughly a 90 degree angle, all depending on your hit. They must meet not only in the same place for a double-kiss but also at the same time, that's why there is so much leeway on shots such as this and you see players get so-called "lucky". The 10 can go in front of or behind or right at the cueball but it can only hit it if it's there at the same time. Very tough to do.

Dennis

 

[vapros]

I think that since the shot presented is certainly not a tough spot for the shooter to deal with, letting the cueball hit the 3 at all is a mistake. Cutting the 14 a bit the other way and leaving the cb behind the pink makes a lot more sense to me. Not that hard to do, either - it doesn't have to be precise and it doesn't present many options for the other guy. All in favor?

 

[SJDinPHX]

What happened Duckbreath? Run out of Yukon Jack and it scared you sober enough to respond to a thread that's been here for 3 days? What a dope..<--When I respond to ANY of your 'BORING' WWYD posts, I HAVE to be BLIND drunk !

Darren sure played a lot better on that table in your garage with the 3.75 pockets didn't he? Or maybe it was just cuz he was playing your neighbor's daughter that he looked so good at the table I'm gonna have to find that DVD and post a few pics from it otherwise nobody would ever believe that you singlehandedly took a top poolplayer and completely ruined his one-pocket game so quickly and so thoroughly.<--Good to see you are coming out of retirement..I will tell Darren there are now TWO STONE SUCKERS in Dirtoit, he can easily play 12 to 2...AND WIN .! (easy)..

It's a good thing you were delivering mail in 1986 or maybe you would've ruined Efren's game too but look how that turned out with the right lessons in Chi-Town.<--How many times do I have to tell you, Efren left Cally, to go to Shitago,(sp) cause he heard the place was loaded with GO-OFF'S...It sure wasn't for the WEATHER...


http://www.thephoenician.com/golf



P.S. I almost labeled the balls when they started calling the 12 ball the 13 ball but I figured f@@k 'em, if they can't tell pink from orange then they can't tell the 5 ball from an orange either.<--Wouldnt this be your average 'WWYD' clientel LOLROTFLMFAO..

CBD<---

What happened to the nickname I bestowed upon you..."RBL"?..What the hell does "CBD" stand for ?...Oh, I get it.."Cushion Beater Dipsh*t", (or "Dummy", "Doorknob", or "Denise"(pick one)...LAMaoFxOOF..LEL...

SuperDuck, Instructor to the Champion's

PS.. Every time Effy made another score, off the Chi-guy's, he would head to Phoenix, for brainwashing, and re-tutoring, from the Duck..I have a signed, notarized document, to that effect, (on "Phoenician" stationary)...How do you think he got so good at one pocket, banks, and 3C Billiards..[/B]

 

[wincardona]

Steve,

There are many things to like about the shot Daz shot after the break. You get to hit it with a little speed, it's almost straight, not too much thinking involved, the cueball probably floats into the 3 each time and towards relative safety. The 14 & 10 usually go in opposite directions and away from his pocket. It's a one-pocket player's "get out of jail free" card many times but not always.

The bad things are these; You're slightly jacked-up near a rail, coming in from a shallow angle (with the 14), any mis-hit can send the 10 ball right at the place you intend to put the cueball possibly selling out. If you attempt to carom the 14 off the 10 towards your pocket there is a strong chance of not even hitting the 10 ball from that angle so that shot is out. You must make certain to hit enough of the 10 ball so it moves somewhere, this means hitting it fuller and this is where problems begin.

Here are a few possibilites:

This 1st shot would be an accident from here, it's too easy to miss the 10 completely if you played this shot.

View attachment 7590


This 2nd shot is more likely but the 10 ball is going more towards the cueball.

View attachment 7591


This 3rd shot is what might happen if you hit the 10 a little less full than Appleton did. Nothing wrong with it but the 10 still moves to where you are sending the cueball.

View attachment 7592


This 4th shot is an easy possibility.

View attachment 7593


This 14/10 double-kiss is also a real possibility and in fact they may have very slightly double-kissed when Daz shot his shot but it was very slight if at all. I couldn't tell for certain so I didn't mention it. This also sends the 14 at the cueball but sends the 10 ball your way.

View attachment 7594


These are just 5 of the most likely scenarios that can come up on this shot, I'm sure there are several that we couldn't even predict. All in all this isn't a bad shot that Daz shot and I would have shot it too if I was gambling but in a tournament, playing 3 out of 5, I may have played a safety and waited. Like you said, he had several shots available to him.

P.S. Try setting up the cueball, 14 ball, 10 ball and the 3 & 5 balls and shoot this shot a few times. Try to play the cueball safe off the 3 and try bank the 10 into the cueball after the 14 hits it. You'll see how tough it is to do and the reason is this; the 10 ball and the cueball are crossing at roughly a 90 degree angle, all depending on your hit. They must meet not only in the same place for a double-kiss but also at the same time, that's why there is so much leeway on shots such as this and you see players get so-called "lucky". The 10 can go in front of or behind or right at the cueball but it can only hit it if it's there at the same time. Very tough to do.

Dennis

Playing the shot the way Darren played it, which is how you drew it up, presents many problems. Aside from the traffic problems, you also have the problem with controlling the cue ball, especially if you opt to play the carom off the 3ball and hit it with a hard speed. To execute this shot with a hard speed and go into the 3ball takes a very precise hit with the cue ball...which is difficult... Also, the accuracy of the hit will change the angle the cue ball takes going into the 3ball...and that is also a problem...which is evidenced in the result of his shot. All these things are a concern when you opt to play this shot in the fashion that Darren did, not to mention the position of the cue ball (no more than 2"from the cushion) With this understanding playing the other shot off the 14ball and parking the cue ball to the right in the stack should be more appealing to about 99% of all players.

Yes, the latter option is not as effective, however, it's a much safer and easier shot to execute in a crucial time in the game. This option should be appealing....even for a top player. Bottom line...if you can afford to play the more difficult option with the shot...it's more effective and exciting.

Just my thought on the shot.

Dr. Bill

 

[Island Drive]

I like Vapros's simplicity:
By just banking the 14 making SURE it lands on the appletons long rail and leave whitey pinched between the 11/4. You cue ball speed allows U to control whitey and freeze between two balls.