Squeeze or shoot?

[lll]

In my view, the game boils down to one essential which strongly influences whether you win or lose. Control. Control of the cue ball, control of the shot, control of the table, control of the opponent's options, control of the score, and control of oneself. Lose control of any of those things often enough and you the lose game. The best option to chose in any situation is that which maximizes control, in my opinion.

Control is the one philosophy that transcends and includes all styles in one pocket. Every decision and shot falls under its umbrella and either serves it or undermines it.

Skin

CONTROL
skin you have brought up another MAJOR concept
jmho
icbw
this concept trancends all games
you always want your opponent fighting for life not dictating play

 

[Skin]

CONTROL
skin you have brought up another MAJOR concept
jmho
icbw
this concept trancends all games
you always want your opponent fighting for life not dictating play

Larry, I just posted on my Facebook wall that I have received one Attaboy from a budding 3 cushion subgenius. I hope you don't mind.

Skin

 

[wincardona]

In my view, the game boils down to one essential which strongly influences whether you win or lose. Control. Control of the cue ball, control of the shot, control of the table, control of the opponent's options, control of the score, and control of oneself. Lose control of any of those things often enough and you the lose game. The best option to chose in any situation is that which maximizes control, in my opinion.

Control is the one philosophy that transcends and includes all styles in one pocket. Every decision and shot falls under its umbrella and either serves it or undermines it.

Skin

That's some very accurate advice Skin, but the problem is ... how to figure that out when at the table.... Yes, as we go back and forth debating what option is best or should be considered, we are trying to play some sort of a controlled game but at times you have to give up a little control to steal the advantage....that's where it gets tricky...

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

Bille....I don't know if you ever saw the long One Pocket thread/post that I've put up a couple of times over the last several years, which gives my One Pocket philosophy, and at the same time gives a partial overview of the One Pocket lessons I give...but here's a few paragraphs taken from that archived thread/post, that address your question ----->

That's a perfectly worded summation on how to think when playing one pocket But there is one huge problem with your advice...and it's great advice with much insightfulness..... The problem is, is that there are players that kinda understand your message but don't have enough experience to draw from. If I were to teach a top player with limited experience that has a passion for the game then i'm calling you to teach. That's the kind of player that will prosper from your advice and get the max. Not saying that lesser players can't learn from what you say...they can...but it's much more work especially if you don't have a true passion for the game.

Dr. Bill

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

That's a perfectly worded summation on how to think when playing one pocket But there is one huge problem with your advice...and it's great advice with much insightfulness..... The problem is, is that there are players that kinda understand your message but don't have enough experience to draw from.

Billy, when I give lessons, I of course match the level of the lessons to the level of the students understanding and capabilities.


If I were to teach a top player with limited experience that has a passion for the game then i'm calling you to teach. That's the kind of player that will prosper from your advice and get the max. Not saying that lesser players can't learn from what you say...they can...but it's much more work especially if you don't have a true passion for the game.

And Billy, speaking to what you rightly said here.....in an initial conversation, one of the things I always ask the player before starting the lessons, is how strong is their desire to really learn the game and to become an excellent One Pocket player - and how much are they willing to put into it.

Dr. Bill

- Ghost


....

 

[Skin]

That's some very accurate advice Skin, but the problem is ... how to figure that out when at the table.... Yes, as we go back and forth debating what option is best or should be considered, we are trying to play some sort of a controlled game but at times you have to give up a little control to steal the advantage....that's where it gets tricky...

Dr. Bill

Quite correct. Intuition, Bill. The intangible advantage if you have it as a player.

Skin

 

[wgcp]

Thanks for all the responses... and I have to agree with the Dr. it doesn't matter how much you think you have gotten across to someone... if they don't have the requisite skills to execute, or the knowledge/execution abilities to accomplish what is shown it is sometimes a fruitless measure...:frus

I regret every time that I play, or practice that my fundamentals were not stronger when Mike Surber was first teaching me... I spent a week decompressing from my last overseas tour with Freddy in chicago and although I truly believe that I am, as he said, a stone cold pool nut, it is a year later and I still call him to ask questions about shots he showed me then that I didn't have the skill/aptitude then to shoot...

I read the Ghost's post and it makes a lot of sense, but he has to remember just how badly I was striking slow spin shots, or any bank over two rails that cue ball control was the requirement for the shot...the last time we played...

What I think the most important thing I have learned from all of this, is that I absolutely suck playing one pocket... and that the game is much harder to try and play error free than I originally felt... in essence the more I know, it is readily apparant to me the less I know about the game...

However, competitive in nature, I won't back off playing till I feel I can play and mentally navigate the game... I am damn sure glad flying helicopters isn't this hard...

B

PS 11-5 is a good place to start should anyone want to play...

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Forgot to properly reply to this :>)

Forgot to properly reply to this :>)

Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost

Okay, first off I want to say that I’ve been annoyed for years by all of this clueless debating about which is right, or better, the supposed Chicago/Philly/East coast, strong defense, low risk, squeeze style of one pocket - or the so-called modern/left coast, aggressive, fire at your hole style of one pocket….Well, the two reasons this foolish debate annoys me are these...#1. I think this constantly parroted claim of there being a geographic distinction re. the two styles of play, is untrue...and #2. Because this ongoing debate speaks as if these are the only two philosophies of One Pocket play to subscribe to.....when in fact, playing just one of either of these two styles, is not playing optimum One Pocket – why in the world would anyone want to limit theirselves to just one of those styles, rather than employing the full spectrum of One Pocket play?...meaning...The only correct way to play One Pocket is within a matrix whereby you are at all times ready and able to draw upon either of those two styles -> aggressive offense or lockdown/trapping defense - all depending on each specific game situation...

When playing/thinking at the very highest level of one pocket, you will have both of those two styles in your head to choose from, or combine, every time that you step to the table – and deciding which of these style's to employ, will be correctly analyzed and determined in every different inning or shot of yours at the table...

And know that to play top speed one pocket, you need to have a very high level of creativity/imagination/vision…..and you must be an excellent banker…..and you need to have extensive knowledge of kick shots, combination shots, carom shots, and multi-rail billiard angles...

Your shot choice should always be predicated on your correct analysis of several factors, the primary ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, table conditions - and also the One Pocket style, skill set, heart, and ego tendencies of your opponent….and of course, all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/ability…

The first thing that I tell a new One Pocket student of mine is that I can sum up my conception of how I believe correct One Pocket should be played, and what your dual-objective should be at all times, in one sentence:

Unrelenting smart, well-calculated, aggressive attacking, combined with suffocating, lock-down safety play.

In other words, every time that you step to the table (unless you have an obvious ball to make, or you're in a death trap) you should be determinedly, unrelentingly, looking to attack...but if you can’t find a viable offensive shot, then you don’t force the issue – that’s where the smart part comes in…..Instead, play a suffocating safety/put your opponent in a trap, and if that’s not possible, then at least re-position the ball layout in some way that helps your cause…i.e. move balls from near his pocket or on his side of the table to your side - tie up balls on his side, or open up balls or banking/shooting lanes on your side of the table - and/or leave him facing balls from a snookered position, jacked up, or with an awkward angle...and while doing any of this, always endeavor to leave the cueball frozen on the rail - don‘t undervalue this, it severely limits your opponents options and execution when he can only address the top of the cueball.....and also, One Pocket is not always about having the opportunity to run balls, or shoot appealing, gratifying power shots...you must also give total-focus attention to small details - and have the limitless patience and work ethic required to do this...meaning that if you have nothing else available to you for twenty straight innings other then to bunt balls, or to glance the cueball off of balls to only have it travel a few inches - then you should patiently and intently shoot these simple little shots as perfectly as you possibly can every time, striving to gain a strategic edge on your opponent in these intense miniature battles.[/I]

You covered the subject well, Ghost. I could add a few other things, but that is the stuff I get paid a fee for.

Beard

And I, could add a few hundred other things - but that is the stuff I get paid for...as I said earlier, this was just an overview of my One Pocket curriculum - and just a partial overview at that...



...you can't outmove the Ghost

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Hey Papie....I see you lurking... :heh...I thought you were a gone goose...

 

[Miller]

Hey Papie....I see you lurking... :heh...I thought you were a gone goose...

yeah...i saw that also...
he's ignoring my pm....

 

[SJDinPHX]

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket Ghost

Okay, first off I want to say that I’ve been annoyed for years by all of this clueless debating about which is right, or better, the supposed Chicago/Philly/East coast, strong defense, low risk, squeeze style of one pocket - or the so-called modern/left coast, aggressive, fire at your hole style of one pocket….Well, the two reasons this foolish debate annoys me are these...#1. I think this constantly parroted claim of there being a geographic distinction re. the two styles of play, is untrue...and #2. Because this ongoing debate speaks as if these are the only two philosophies of One Pocket play to subscribe to.....when in fact, playing just one of either of these two styles, is not playing optimum One Pocket – why in the world would anyone want to limit theirselves to just one of those styles, rather than employing the full spectrum of One Pocket play?...meaning...The only correct way to play One Pocket is within a matrix whereby you are at all times ready and able to draw upon either of those two styles -> aggressive offense or lockdown/trapping defense - all depending on each specific game situation...

When playing/thinking at the very highest level of one pocket, you will have both of those two styles in your head to choose from, or combine, every time that you step to the table – and deciding which of these style's to employ, will be correctly analyzed and determined in every different inning or shot of yours at the table...

And know that to play top speed one pocket, you need to have a very high level of creativity/imagination/vision…..and you must be an excellent banker…..and you need to have extensive knowledge of kick shots, combination shots, carom shots, and multi-rail billiard angles...

Your shot choice should always be predicated on your correct analysis of several factors, the primary ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, table conditions - and also the One Pocket style, skill set, heart, and ego tendencies of your opponent….and of course, all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/ability…

The first thing that I tell a new One Pocket student of mine is that I can sum up my conception of how I believe correct One Pocket should be played, and what your dual-objective should be at all times, in one sentence:

Unrelenting smart, well-calculated, aggressive attacking, combined with suffocating, lock-down safety play.

In other words, every time that you step to the table (unless you have an obvious ball to make, or you're in a death trap) you should be determinedly, unrelentingly, looking to attack...but if you can’t find a viable offensive shot, then you don’t force the issue – that’s where the smart part comes in…..Instead, play a suffocating safety/put your opponent in a trap, and if that’s not possible, then at least re-position the ball layout in some way that helps your cause…i.e. move balls from near his pocket or on his side of the table to your side - tie up balls on his side, or open up balls or banking/shooting lanes on your side of the table - and/or leave him facing balls from a snookered position, jacked up, or with an awkward angle...and while doing any of this, always endeavor to leave the cueball frozen on the rail - don‘t undervalue this, it severely limits your opponents options and execution when he can only address the top of the cueball.....and also, One Pocket is not always about having the opportunity to run balls, or shoot appealing, gratifying power shots...you must also give total-focus attention to small details - and have the limitless patience and work ethic required to do this...meaning that if you have nothing else available to you for twenty straight innings other then to bunt balls, or to glance the cueball off of balls to only have it travel a few inches - then you should patiently and intently shoot these simple little shots as perfectly as you possibly can every time, striving to gain a strategic edge on your opponent in these intense miniature battles.


You covered the subject fairly well, Ghost. I could add a few other things, but that is the stuff I get paid a fee for. But following the above certainly aint gonna hurt ya'.

Beard

I just can't help but respond...This is not HH or Mr.Pincushion..I am answering two sophistcated [sic] gentlemen....You and the Ghoat's basic philosipy is very sound...Thats why he has posted it 200 times....He is speaking to a select group of beginner's, (APA 4's) who may not have yet learned the fundamentals of the game...And thats OK, for teaching JoeyA or John Barton...

I prefer to work with guys, who have advanced skills. (ie;..Bernie P, Mitch Ellerman, Gus Bresino, and Darren Appletom...Those are guys who have the apptitude, and can grasp the subleties of the game, and apply them.... NO ONE can teach one pocket in a few lessons...And I applaud youse guys for trying...Bottom line, they either have imagination/creativity...or they don't.....Thats what makes it the greatest game, on a pool table..

SuperDuck

PS..If there is ANYONE in Chitago, (besides Gentile)...who wants to play any one of them, (I coach) let me know...In the words of the late great (I think, ICBW) "Amarillo Slim"...."I ain't on no F@@kin' budget".. (Chris can play with the right game.

 

[gulfportdoc]

... guys, who have advanced skills. (ie;..Bernie P, Mitch Ellerman, Gus Bresino, and Darren Appletom...Those are guys who have the apptitude, and can grasp the subleties of the game, and apply them.... NO ONE can teach one pocket in a few lessons...And I applaud youse guys for trying...Bottom line, they either have imagination/creativity...or they don't.....Thats what makes it the greatest game, on a pool table..

I agree. Most of the great players who come to mind have great imaginations as well. They have the ability to mentally see positions for the balls on the table which would either benefit them or be detrimental to the opponent. They also have the ingenuity to create situations and layouts which would put them at an advantage. Ronnie Allen was able to intuitively understand how to move groups of balls toward his pocket.

Those abilities can be learned over many years-- to a degree. But some have those talents as a gift from nature. Because one-pocket has a large artistic component along with the high skill requirement, comparisons to music instrumentalists can be made. Some have the talent, some don't. The ones that don't can become with work very good players; but never great players.

Doc

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Re. my post of last night in this thread.....I want to say to all of you...


:sorry, but I just can't help but knock - it's my favorite thing to do - knocking is like crack-cocaine to me - it's the reason why I can't stay away from this site.....

So even though I wasn't through licking my wounds (substantial wounds I received over in the members section in the last week or so)...when I just couldn't stand not getting my knocking fix, I thought to myself (foggily, through the rotgut haze)...I know...

I'll knock one of the Ghost's posts...cuz he goes easy on me - he will needle/chide me with his phenomenal wit...but he won't get real personal and vicious, and brutalize me like those three thugs over in the member's section do to me - that abuse, with my thin skin, (even though I pretend I don't have thin skin) I can't handle......

And truth be told, re. my having left the site for several days - and I'm being honest now, no joking around...even more than the physical assault that I've been subjected to recently by the 'three thugs' - it's when the big thug said how for years now on this site, I've never posted anything actually relating to One Pocket, anything of any substance - that the only thing I ever do on this site is post the same old tired jokes, and knock good, solid posts/threads....well, the truth of that really got to me and I had to pull up for awhile.

SuperKnocker...

............

 

[boingo]

As one of the longtime lurkers and a pool nobody I suggest that the forum might benefit from a little less personality and a little more One Pocket. Even the greatest champion is regarded in the light of his deportment as well as his performance. Mosconi was an example of that, his performance was singular yet his treatment of other players was disappointing. Just my opinion.

 

[newfosgatesucks]

Know yourself and your ability. Each shot look for an advantage. Divide shot selection outcomes by your ability. Dont ever act like a shooter or a mover. Then youll play your game.

The only way to develop and improve your game is to play your game in the first place.

Practice shots and moves and incorporate them. But using them before they are mastered takes away from YOUR game.

YOUR game is the key.


Watch various situations and note the probabilities of outcomes in others games. Then when you see probability weigh in incorporate it.


So in short my answer to your ?? Is NIETHER!! Be you but find you first.

 

[SJDinPHX]

............

Very clever Ghastess..using your hilarious [sic] wit, to put together yet another of your specialties which is 'EDITING' (aka, putting words in peoples mouths) You have become very adept at this method of retaliating, especially when 'um's widdle feelers get hurt. No one, not even Beardo, can match the way YOUR skin just 'explodes' off your body, when SuperDuck hits a nerve..

Actually, I was trying to be concilitory and complimentary, when trying to comment on your one pocket thesis.. (which you drag out, at the slightest provocation)...It is not my fault I couldn't find anything good to say about it..

Let me close by saying, I have always enjoyed our little 'games', much more than the retarded ramblings of the "3 thugs" as you called them... I prefer to think of them, as the "Three Complete F-ing Idiots"..Mr. Pincushion lacks so much in our verbal exchanges, I am actually GLAD he has found someone to LOOK UP to...The 'Human Hemorrhoid' (AKA, "The BLIMP") is no smarter than him, but he knows a lot more colorful [sic] schoolyard language...There was just no challenge at all anymore..:sorry

Super F@@king Duck <--Verbal Destroyer Extrordinaire...

View attachment 6992

PS..I would be glad to include your 'good moving ass', in the aforementioned group of players. Of course, I would feel obligated NOT to coach them, as that would be tantamount to 'Stealing'...Because, as everyone knows, (but you) your verbal game FAR exceeds your actual one pocket game...

 

[mr3cushion]

Quote...There was just no challenge at all anymore..

Super F@@king Duck <--Verbal Destroyer Extrodinaire...



You just ran off like the coward yellow dog, that you are.

And that little comment you made about kicking someone's ass.

Be one your toes, that someone don't come up to you in a poolroom and hand you your ass!

Some people don't make allowances for senior drunks!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

P.S. Who opened this guy's casket to wake him up; it was sooooooooo peaceful during his WAAAAAAY too short absence.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Quote...There was just no challenge at all anymore..

Super F@@king Duck <--Verbal Destroyer Extrodinaire...

You just ran off like the coward yellow dog, that you are.

And that little comment you made about kicking someone's ass.

Be one your toes, that someone don't come up to you in a poolroom and hand you your ass! <--It certainly won't be you, or the Blimp, unless you catch me 'drunk' and team up on me ! (which, on 2nd thought..you'd STILL be the underdog's). :sorry

Some people don't make allowances for senior drunks! <--Very true, some people (like you) can ONLY ROB DRUNK'S !!!..

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

P.S. Who opened this guy's casket to wake him up; it was sooooooooo peaceful during his WAAAAAAY too short absence.

Mr. Pincushion

Now that was just WAAAAAAAAAY to clever a reply for YOU !..Fess up now, who helped you write it, Beardo or HH..?.

SuperDuck <---Figures it was the Beard, due to the lack of 4 letter words..(I'm sure it wasn't Dennnnnis)

PS..As HH's "HEAD NUT-DANGLER"..it is your job to reply to him..He's looking very lonesome over there, in la,la, land..

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Hey Papie....I see you lurking... :heh...I thought you were a gone goose...

yeah...i saw that also...
he's ignoring my pm....

That wasn't him fellas, that was me. I hacked into his computer and stole his password. Now I can write whatever I want and everyone will think it's him.

P.S. The Duck can go weeks without noticing pm's and weeks longer still before replying to them.

Dennis

 

[tylerdurden]

I'll throw out an aphorism on this topic, or at least what I believe to be one....

Squeeze your way to victory playing mediocre players. Shoot your way to victory playing good players.