1999 Pro v Pro what to do

[wincardona]

I really like shooting off the closest ball ...in this situation... There are other possible good options playing off the closest ball in this layout, especially if you leave the table with the cue ball positioned near the rail by the pocket. There are probably better spots you can leave the cue ball in shooting from the position shown but the problem is getting there. If my choice is available, like I mentioned earlier, you pretty much know what's in store for your opponent. Understanding this not only makes this option easy to execute, but it also makes it easy to evaluate No surprises with this choice.

Billy I.

Here's another note worthy point you should always remember. When playing one pocket leaving distance and also leaving the table with the cue ball frozen or close to the rail will always be an asset...regardless of who your opponent is... In this situation playing the choice I suggested you do both, plus you're not doing anything to give the game away. Remember to always look for leaves of this kind as possible options.

Dr. Bill

 

[Skin]

Here's another note worthy point you should always remember. When playing one pocket leaving distance and also leaving the table with the cue ball frozen or close to the rail will always be an asset...regardless of who your opponent is... In this situation playing the choice I suggested you do both, plus you're not doing anything to give the game away. Remember to always look for leaves of this kind as possible options.

Dr. Bill

Billy, let's discuss this further. My shot, of course, was to go for the combo on the 6 and try to get two more balls at least after that. The better players felt like that was risking the position advantage too much and opted for shots similar to yours. I will gladly defer to y'all's better understanding of the game and accept that is the correct option.

However, consider now where you have left the cb. The opponent has a free shot to clear your hole of all your table strength. Sure, he's way uptable on the rail, but the angle for it is very good. If he decides not to shoot that, he still owns the foot rail given where the 6 is by your hole and can leave you down there. Now you are exposed and shooting to protect, which may not be so easy. This factored into my choice to just go for the combo now instead of delaying.

In my limited experience there are times when it is tough to decide whether to go or continue developing the table in my favor. Usually, that choice is made based on whether I think I can protect the balls by my hole long enough to get another shot at them. In the present layout, I just don't see being able to hold onto those balls for very long before he is able to kick them out or move them to his side. For me, in my thinking, now is the time to go for them even though the shot is not ideal. A miss may still get me one byhanging the 6 and him making it. It certainly won't leave him anything to shoot at his hole.

Of course, we don't know how the balls will wind up after the shots you and the better players proposed. They could wind up with the shooter having an overpowering advantage, but it is just not certain.

Skin

 

[fred bentivegna]

It also fits

It also fits

Here is an option that nobody mentioned that i like. Shooting the ball your next to straight ahead playing for a thin hit combo on the top ball( 13 ball i think) the 13 gets cut to your hole and the ball your hitting first caroms off the 13 off your opponents side rail and toward your hole and you draw the cueball back and freeze it to the rail or close to the jaws of the pocket. If you hit the combo a little fat it will probably hit the 7 ball which in turn will hit the stripe toward your hole. The best part about the shot is it looks like its aimed perfectly for the combo. Hit this with some speed so in case the caromed ball goes off the side rail into the stack it moves balls to your side

All the shots discussed that started with the closest ball to you are good options. They all operate out of the tenet of not shooting at balls that are already in good position, unless you have to. Its almost always better to add more balls to the mix.

Beard

 

[vapros]

Good point, Freddy. Thanx for that.

 

[lll]

Billy, let's discuss this further. My shot, of course, was to go for the combo on the 6 and try to get two more balls at least after that. The better players felt like that was risking the position advantage too much and opted for shots similar to yours. I will gladly defer to y'all's better understanding of the game and accept that is the correct option.

However, consider now where you have left the cb. The opponent has a free shot to clear your hole of all your table strength. Sure, he's way uptable on the rail, but the angle for it is very good. If he decides not to shoot that, he still owns the foot rail given where the 6 is by your hole and can leave you down there. Now you are exposed and shooting to protect, which may not be so easy. This factored into my choice to just go for the combo now instead of delaying.

In my limited experience there are times when it is tough to decide whether to go or continue developing the table in my favor. Usually, that choice is made based on whether I think I can protect the balls by my hole long enough to get another shot at them. In the present layout, I just don't see being able to hold onto those balls for very long before he is able to kick them out or move them to his side. For me, in my thinking, now is the time to go for them even though the shot is not ideal. A miss may still get me one byhanging the 6 and him making it. It certainly won't leave him anything to shoot at his hole.

Of course, we don't know how the balls will wind up after the shots you and the better players proposed. They could wind up with the shooter having an overpowering advantage, but it is just not certain.

Skin

All the shots discussed that started with the closest ball to you are good options. They all operate out of the tenet of not shooting at balls that are already in good position, unless you have to. Its almost always better to add more balls to the mix.

Beard

im not trying to say whats the right shot ill leave that to those that play/understand better than me
but when do you decide to shoot???
its still the first one to make 8 that wins
just asking
and seriously
i know to get one at risk is stupid

 

[Skin]

im not trying to say whats the right shot ill leave that to those that play/understand better than me
but when do to decide to shoot???its still the first one to make 8 that wins
just asking
and seriously
i know to get one at risk is stupid

I think that is the criticial question, Larry. Artie used to always say to start your run with an easy shot. That's great advice, IF you can get an easy shot before all your balls have been moved away.

Skin

 

[wincardona]

Billy, let's discuss this further. My shot, of course, was to go for the combo on the 6 and try to get two more balls at least after that. The better players felt like that was risking the position advantage too much and opted for shots similar to yours. I will gladly defer to y'all's better understanding of the game and accept that is the correct option.

However, consider now where you have left the cb. The opponent has a free shot to clear your hole of all your table strength. Sure, he's way uptable on the rail, but the angle for it is very good. If he decides not to shoot that, he still owns the foot rail given where the 6 is by your hole and can leave you down there. Now you are exposed and shooting to protect, which may not be so easy. This factored into my choice to just go for the combo now instead of delaying.

In my limited experience there are times when it is tough to decide whether to go or continue developing the table in my favor. Usually, that choice is made based on whether I think I can protect the balls by my hole long enough to get another shot at them. In the present layout, I just don't see being able to hold onto those balls for very long before he is able to kick them out or move them to his side. For me, in my thinking, now is the time to go for them even though the shot is not ideal. A miss may still get me one byhanging the 6 and him making it. It certainly won't leave him anything to shoot at his hole.

Of course, we don't know how the balls will wind up after the shots you and the better players proposed. They could wind up with the shooter having an overpowering advantage, but it is just not certain.

Skin

That's a fair question and i'll try to answer it in the way that I would be thinking prior to shooting my choice. Like you said, Artie said that if possible start your run with a simple shot, which you don't have if you opt to start with the combo. Agreed? Well that's what I would be thinking as I look at the combo as an option, plus I would say that even though I may be a slight favorite to pocket the combo I still have to control the shot for the next shot and if I fail to pocket the combo I lose my position. The position I lose isn't just the position we're looking at initially, but the position I would have if I passed the combo and improved my position with another option. I then would look at my shot shooting the closest ball two cushions into the bottom of my side of the stack, figuring that I will position the ball that I shot and possibly another ball on my side of the table.....Quite possibly in the path of the counter shot my opponent may have of clearing my pocket. Keep in mind that i'm positioning the cue ball near the cushion a distance from the balls that are needed to be struck to clear my pocket, and clearing my pocket ( if there are no other interfering balls in the path) is a difficult task, which the shooter will be at a distinct disadvantage. So what i'm actually doing is strengthening my position where if I do get a shot I will be able to do much more damage, or possibly run out as opposed to shooting the combo and settle for a few balls., if I make the combo.
Billy I.

 

[Skin]

Thanks, Billy. That was an excellent lesson and I am convinced. I'll try to work that way of thinking into my game from now on. You are thinking deeper and more aggressively than I have been. I sure appreciate the enlightenment.

Skin

 

[wincardona]

Thanks, Billy. That was an excellent lesson and I am convinced. I'll try to work that way of thinking into my game from now on. You are thinking deeper and more aggressively than I have been. I sure appreciate the enlightenment.

Skin

No problem, i'm glad that I can help you and it's rewarding to me that you truly understand my way of thinking and are willing to incorporate it into your game. One pocket is a great game, and i've played a lot of games, card, board, and other sports that don't offer near the enjoyment that one pocket delivers. Patience is a strong attribute playing the game of one pocket, never underestimate it's strength.

Billy I.

 

[onepockethacker]

No problem, i'm glad that I can help you and it's rewarding to me that you truly understand my way of thinking and are willing to incorporate it into your game. One pocket is a great game, and i've played a lot of games, card, board, and other sports that don't offer near the enjoyment that one pocket delivers. Patience is a strong attribute playing the game of one pocket, never underestimate it's strength.

Billy I.

Good shot and explanation Billy. I prefer my shot post #15. Im sending 2 balls instead of 1 at my pocket/stack. If my shot wasnt aiming as perfect as it is(in otherwords if i had to cut it) i wouldnt shoot it. The other benefit of my shot is im not moving the cueball alot. Of all the selections i liked yours 2nd behind mine. Like we said before different shots for different people.

 

[NH Steve]

Here is an option that nobody mentioned that i like. Shooting the ball your next to straight ahead playing for a thin hit combo on the top ball( 13 ball i think) the 13 gets cut to your hole and the ball your hitting first caroms off the 13 off your opponents side rail and toward your hole and you draw the cueball back and freeze it to the rail or close to the jaws of the pocket. If you hit the combo a little fat it will probably hit the 7 ball which in turn will hit the stripe toward your hole. The best part about the shot is it looks like its aimed perfectly for the combo. Hit this with some speed so in case the caromed ball goes off the side rail into the stack it moves balls to your side

You mean something like this? If I felt like this laid right and I could hit it accurately enough (big if, lol) then I would like this -- as long as I could double up on the balls near my pocket (using the solid near the side pocket as a blocker) so my opponent could not just blast them away.

 

[wincardona]

Good shot and explanation Billy. I prefer my shot post #15. Im sending 2 balls instead of 1 at my pocket/stack. If my shot wasnt aiming as perfect as it is(in otherwords if i had to cut it) i wouldnt shoot it. The other benefit of my shot is im not moving the cueball alot. Of all the selections i liked yours 2nd behind mine. Like we said before different shots for different people.

This position is strong starting out and if you can put one or two more balls into the mix and control the shot that's all that's needed. Your shot is a little over kill if you will. Plus it needs to be hit well, you run the risk of the 9 ball going into the wrong side of the stack, not likely for a good ball striker but possible none the less. To me it's not a good trade off risking selling out an easy shot if you happen to hit your shot rough. Plus it's over kill, meaning that you really don't need the extra balls your shot may produce, especially if you're jeopardizing your position. But if it's hit well...BINGO...

Billy I.

 

[onepockethacker]

You mean something like this? If I felt like this laid right and I could hit it accurately enough (big if, lol) then I would like this -- as long as I could double up on the balls near my pocket (using the solid near the side pocket as a blocker) so my opponent could not just blast them away.

Thats exactly what i mean

 

[wincardona]

stating the obvious

stating the obvious

Thats exactly what i mean

I also thought you meant that.

Billy I.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Originally Posted by lll
.....I know to get one at risk is stupid

I think that is the criticial question, Larry. Artie used to always say to start your run with an easy shot. That's great advice, IF you can get an easy shot before all your balls have been moved away.

Skin

Larry you answered your own question. One at risk is stupid.

Skin, remembered a super key piece of advice, that applies greatly to this situation.

These are some of the key ingredients to playing 1pkt.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Keen insight...

Keen insight...

That's a fair question and i'll try to answer it in the way that I would be thinking prior to shooting my choice. Like you said, Artie said that if possible start your run with a simple shot, which you don't have if you opt to start with the combo. Agreed? Well that's what I would be thinking as I look at the combo as an option, plus I would say that even though I may be a slight favorite to pocket the combo I still have to control the shot for the next shot and if I fail to pocket the combo I lose my position. The position I lose isn't just the position we're looking at initially, but the position I would have if I passed the combo and improved my position with another option. I then would look at my shot shooting the closest ball two cushions into the bottom of my side of the stack, figuring that I will position the ball that I shot and possibly another ball on my side of the table.....Quite possibly in the path of the counter shot my opponent may have of clearing my pocket. Keep in mind that i'm positioning the cue ball near the cushion a distance from the balls that are needed to be struck to clear my pocket, and clearing my pocket ( if there are no other interfering balls in the path) is a difficult task, which the shooter will be at a distinct disadvantage. So what i'm actually doing is strengthening my position where if I do get a shot I will be able to do much more damage, or possibly run out as opposed to shooting the combo and settle for a few balls., if I make the combo.
Billy I.

...and explanation of the thinking process. What Dr Bill is trying to say is that you must THINK past the obvious and do a proper evaluation.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

Doesnt make sense...

Doesnt make sense...

Thanks for the compliments Freddy. Although I knew Jersey Red, I only had the pleasure of practicing with him a couple of times. That doesn't mean I didn't learn a whole lot from him by watching a couple of Accustats tapes and from shots in WOP & SMS.

Everyone on here knows the man that taught me the most...Rodney aka Androd Without knowing for sure (wished I had kept a record of such things as you have Freddy), I think he has to be the pool player I have sparred with the most.

And since you mentioned him JJ is also someone I have been able to learn from in the "school of hard knocks."

And nobody on here really gets to look forward to playing pool with me anytime soon. You are correct, I am waiting in the weeds, but the weeds have me more preoccupied right now. I just peek up from the weeds every now and again to try to keep up with some of the happenings in the pool world.

You learned to think like that from Androd? That is hard to believe because didnt he claim that he learned a lot from watching SJD? Maybe what he learned was what NOT to do.

Beard

 

[wincardona]

...and explanation of the thinking process. What Dr Bill is trying to say is that you must THINK past the obvious and do a proper evaluation.

Beard

Dr. Bill said what he was trying to say.:frus You sound like Artie when he was trying to teach players to play better one pocket on the site. He would say that you have to think (but he never would say what to think about):sorry

Dr. Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

I told them in those PM's

I told them in those PM's

Dr. Bill said what he was trying to say.:frus You sound like Artie when he was trying to teach players to play better one pocket on the site. He would say that you have to think (but he never would say what to think about):sorry

Dr. Bill

I told those interested parties in PM's what to think about when I evaluated this shot situation. :lol

Beard

 

[SJDinPHX]

You learned to think like that from Androd? That is hard to believe because didnt he claim that he learned a lot from watching SJD?.......*** Maybe what he learned was what NOT to do.

Beard

I happen to have a "Foolproof" shot, for that situation, (which means even YOU could execute it.) However, you will have to PM me, or call (not collect again please) for my explanation...Even Darren A. could shoot it 50 times, without an error, and strangle the oppo, EVERY TIME !

PS..For your *** smart-ass remark, there WILL be a fee involved !!!