One of those flukes

[NH Steve]

Okay, I made this shot tonight -- lucked it in off the side pocket point straight into my called pocket. It was game ball in short rack My opponent didn;t go for it and I didn't really argue (although I did say I thought it might actually count, just as if it creased the long rail up close to my pocket). I didn't push it because I still only needed one and he needed three. The game was for 20 for reference point. He shoots better than me but, I am pretty savvy and still often find ways to eke out wins

So, am I right that this was a legal shot and I was actually out?
Couldn't get the cuetable to work so I screen shot the cuetable diagram...

PS I won anyway a shot or two later

 

[ChrisBanks]

The rule most people play by is that if your shot hits the first segment of the long rail, it is not a score.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

So, am I right that this was a legal shot and I was actually out?

The few times I've seen this happen it was agreed by both players that it was no shot. I'm guessing that hasn't changed.

Dennis

 

[dmyroncox]

it sure does count

 

[John Brumback]

Well Steve,I've played It both ways In alot of different tournys over the years and bettin.
I can't even remeber how they play It at the DCC?

Which brings me to this Idea...Boy wouldn't It be nice to have say a standard
set of pool rules like In golf.That's one thing about golf,no matter where you go or who your playing ( TOURNY OR GAMBLING) or what country your In,you never ever have to worry about which rules you are going to play by.Seems like a pretty simple fix to all
these ole rule problems we go through In this sport or game. Think I'll just make a good set and pass em around and then wi'll be done with this forever:lol John B.

 

[NH Steve]

Well Steve,I've played It both ways In alot of different tournys over the years and bettin.
I can't even remeber how they play It at the DCC?

Which brings me to this Idea...Boy wouldn't It be nice to have say a standard
set of pool rules like In golf.That's one thing about golf,no matter where you go or who your playing ( TOURNY OR GAMBLING) or what country your In,you never ever have to worry about which rules you are going to play by.Seems like a pretty simple fix to all
these ole rule problems we go through In this sport or game. Think I'll just make a good set and pass em around and then wi'll be done with this forever:lol John B.

This is what we have here, but it does not address this particular question (and more, no doubt) -- but it is a start.

http://www.onepocket.org/BankPoolRules.htm

Edit --> hey, it looks like it does address this:
"7.5 When a called ball contacts either the cushions or pocket points along the rails adjacent to the called pocket on its final approach toward the pocket, such contact does not count as a bank in defining the called shot. If an otherwise legal called bank shot is pocketed in such a manner, the ball counts as long as the shot conforms with the shooter’s called intentions, and no foul or scratch occurs."

Sheeeet it looks like I answered my own question -- it counts

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Edit --> hey, it looks like it does address this:
"7.5 When a called ball contacts either the cushions or pocket points along the rails adjacent to the called pocket on its final approach toward the pocket, such contact does not count as a bank in defining the called shot. If an otherwise legal called bank shot is pocketed in such a manner, the ball counts as long as the shot conforms with the shooter’s called intentions, and no foul or scratch occurs."

Sheeeet it looks like I answered my own question -- it counts

Sorry to burst your bubble Steve but your ball hit the point of the rail on the other side of the side pocket. That rail is not "adjacent" to the called pocket. There are only two rails adjacent to the called pocket, you hit a third rail not adjacent to the pocket. Going by your interpretation all of the rails on the table could be considered "adjacent" to the called pocket.

adjacent [əˈdʒeɪsənt]
adj
1. being near or close, esp having a common boundary; adjoining; contiguous
2. (Mathematics) Maths
a. (of a pair of vertices in a graph) joined by a common edge
b. (of a pair of edges in a graph) meeting at a common vertex
n
(Mathematics) Geometry the side lying between a specified angle and a right angle in a right-angled triangle
[from Latin adjacēre to lie next to, from ad- near + jacēre to lie]
adjacency n


I don't care how anyone plays this shot but I know that if you missed the ball that badly and it went in off the point of the other rail like that then nobody I ever knew would let you have it playing banks.

Dennis

 

[John Brumback]

There's been plenty of tournys and gamblers that have allowed that type of shot to count.(either side of pocket)
The reason being Is that it's very hard to have a reff at every match,gambling or otherwise.Just another reason to have set of standard rules.(Or better rewrittin ones) (or reffs at every single match,gambling or tournys) IMHO John B.

 

[NH Steve]

Sorry to burst your bubble Steve but your ball hit the point of the rail on the other side of the side pocket. That rail is not "adjacent" to the called pocket. There are only two rails adjacent to the called pocket, you hit a third rail not adjacent to the pocket. Going by your interpretation all of the rails on the table could be considered "adjacent" to the called pocket.

adjacent [əˈdʒeɪsənt]
adj
1. being near or close, esp having a common boundary; adjoining; contiguous
2. (Mathematics) Maths
a. (of a pair of vertices in a graph) joined by a common edge
b. (of a pair of edges in a graph) meeting at a common vertex
n
(Mathematics) Geometry the side lying between a specified angle and a right angle in a right-angled triangle
[from Latin adjacēre to lie next to, from ad- near + jacēre to lie]
adjacency n


I don't care how anyone plays this shot but I know that if you missed the ball that badly and it went in off the point of the other rail like that then nobody I ever knew would let you have it playing banks.

Dennis

That's a good point and I like using that definition of adjacent rail -- in other words, if my shot went off the other side of the side pocket (other point), then it would have been good -- but not that side because it is not an immediately adjacent rail. I like that interpretation and it makes sense and it does not seem that hard to police.

 

[ChrisBanks]

I still think if you hit the first segment of the long rail , it's not a score. And I believe I heard Freddie say that is how they play in Derby City. He said it in a commentary if I remember it right. Or maybe it was Danny D.

 

[Jimmy B]

That's a good point and I like using that definition of adjacent rail -- in other words, if my shot went off the other side of the side pocket (other point), then it would have been good -- but not that side because it is not an immediately adjacent rail. I like that interpretation and it makes sense and it does not seem that hard to police.

That's the way I always understood the rule too Steve. In other words there are six rails on the table and the contact has to be incidental contact with one of the two rails joining the pocket as the ball goes in, like RBL said...

 

[tylerdurden]

I agree that there should be a solid set of standardized rules. My view on this, and I haven't gambled or played a lot of bank pool tournies, but i think this shot should count.

First, maybe the guy could actually play that shot if there was a ball blocking the real path. For those of you that don't think this should count, do you think the guy should at least be able to call it off the point??

Second, I like this creative stuff? Are people able to shoot balls in off the side pocket point in bank pool tournaments? I think they should be able to, as long as they call the pocket.

I even think a guy should be able to rattle a ball in a hole and call it for another hole. If it goes, hey, that's a bank too.

Call the pocket, needs to be clean of course, and if it hits at least one rail, it's good. That would be my preferred way to play. Simple, and you really wouldn't get too much luck at all. I also think kick banks should be good, it would enhance bank players one pocket skills more, and hell, why not?? But that is another topic I guess.

 

[lll]

I agree that there should be a solid set of standardized rules. My view on this, and I haven't gambled or played a lot of bank pool tournies, but i think this shot should count.

First, maybe the guy could actually play that shot if there was a ball blocking the real path. For those of you that don't think this should count, do you think the guy should at least be able to call it off the point??

Second, I like this creative stuff? Are people able to shoot balls in off the side pocket point in bank pool tournaments? I think they should be able to, as long as they call the pocket.

I even think a guy should be able to rattle a ball in a hole and call it for another hole. If it goes, hey, that's a bank too.

Call the pocket, needs to be clean of course, and if it hits at least one rail, it's good. That would be my preferred way to play. Simple, and you really wouldn't get too much luck at all. I also think kick banks should be good, it would enhance bank players one pocket skills more, and hell, why not?? But that is another topic I guess.

i think if you called it it should count
since i dont play alot of "real banks "
when i do we play rail kicks to make balls counts since for us the purpose of playing banks is to improve our skill at using the rails
i hope im not banned from this section of the site for admitting that

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

when i do we play rail kicks to make balls counts since for us the purpose of playing banks is to improve our skill at using the rails
i hope im not banned from this section of the site for admitting that

They won't bar you for that lll, the DCC Bank Ring Game allows kicks of three rails or more to help speed up the game I presume. Of course, it sometimes doesn't work out like that. Here's my post on the topic from another thread.

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=77507&postcount=6

RBL

 

[fred bentivegna]

Wasnt me

Wasnt me

I still think if you hit the first segment of the long rail , it's not a score. And I believe I heard Freddie say that is how they play in Derby City. He said it in a commentary if I remember it right. Or maybe it was Danny D.

For 50 years i played if it hit the side corner on a straight back and then lucked itself into the pocket, it was unfortunate for the opponent but it counted anyway.

Beard

 

[ChrisBanks]

For 50 years i played if it hit the side corner on a straight back and then lucked itself into the pocket, it was unfortunate for the opponent but it counted anyway.

Beard

oh ok it must have been Danny that said that. I'll go back and try to find which tape it was. sorry for the misinformation.

 

[New 2 You Qs]

For 50 years i played if it hit the side corner on a straight back and then lucked itself into the pocket, it was unfortunate for the opponent but it counted anyway.

Beard

If I'm not mistaken, this is how they play it at the DCC. It takes all the argument out of the equation.

 

[ChrisBanks]

I just found the accu-stats tape I was talking about.

It's 2000 DCC Nick Varner vs. Gary Spaeth
Commentary by Grady and Truman

Grady states that if you hit the far point on a straight back, it is no good. And Truman agreed with him. And they said that is how they play it at DCC.

The situation came up when Nick hit a straight back and hit the far point, and he nearly made the bank.

I had earlier said that Freddy was the commentator for this match, but I was mistaken.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

If I'm not mistaken, this is how they play it at the DCC. It takes all the argument out of the equation.

Playing that it's not a good shot would also remove all argument. Why should a player miss a ball by a foot and get credit for it? I've only seen it once or twice (in 30 years) and I really don't remember the ruling on it here but I can't envision John McCue allowing that shot to count against him. Maybe if it hit the rail adjacent to the pocket but not the other rail. I can't see players allowing that shot( original post) to count.

It's no big deal except that a bank pool tourney does need a clear rule on it.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

And Truman agreed with him. And they said that is how they play it at DCC.

I'd take Truman's ruling on any bank rule.

Dennis