B. Incardona vs. S. Smith 1998 W.O.P.#2

Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
If he doesn't shoot the 7 (I think it is), and knock the stripe up table, and stick whitey on the duece...then he's not the same Lizard I've played several times...:p
Ducky,

Is this the same tourney where you played Cliff?

RBL
 

wincardona

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SJDinPHX said:
If he doesn't shoot the 7 (I think it is), and knock the stripe up table, and stick whitey on the duece...then he's not the same Lizard I've played several times...:p

Please don't shoot that shot Steve.:eek:

Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
Please don't shoot that shot Steve.:eek:

Billy I.


Thats the correct shot shoot the 7 ball and the cue ball stops on the two ball.

Thats a real strong shot. and he could make a ball from thier. And that shoot will open the balls up a little

Andi would make the Lizard a 3 to 2 favorite from her. But hats definatly the shot too shoot.

And that what I would do.

The 7 ball will move the 5 and 10 and the seven to his pocket. And he is a big favorite from thier.

Because a ball will be in front off his pocket and Billy shooting him back down the end rail will not be too good.

He could role up too the 6 and 5 ball and try too freeze him too the 7 and 10 ball.

But the 4 balls in the front have too get loosened up for the lizard. Not that thier bad. Thier just not laying good.

I dont think Billy won this game but I dont bet on replays. Its not too good off a bet.

But the lizard will shoot one off those two shots. If he is smart he will shoot the 7 ball.

What is a game lead worth on the money?
 

timdog24

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SJDinPHX said:
If he doesn't shoot the 7 (I think it is), and knock the stripe up table, and stick whitey on the duece...then he's not the same Lizard I've played several times...:p

I like that shot too (think it's the 3 ball). Looks to be laying real good. If I overlooked that shot, then I'd probably cut that stripe sticking out behind the 3 towards my hole and try to bring the cue ball back up table to about where it is now.
 

bstroud

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From that distance it will be very difficult to stop the cue ball behind the 2 ball. If it slides slightly forward you have let Billy out of the trap. I see several other shots that offer more safety and will keep the trap closed.

Liz already has the advantage. He doesn't need to get too aggressive.

Bill Stroud
 

vapros

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If he shoots the 7 ball, he'd better make it. The CB is pretty near the rail, adding to the difficulty. I like timdog's second shot. Thin the stripe near the foot rail and send the CB back to the top.
 

sappo

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Squeeze Baby Squeeze

Squeeze Baby Squeeze

I like rolling into the 10 ball and cutting it slightly to the right. the 10 ball will hit the dark ball {i cant tell what ball it is but its the second closest ball to the Liz's side rail} and both the 10 and the dark ball move closer to his pocket. meanwhile the cue ball sits on the stack between the 8 ball and the 2 ball. BI is in a world of trouble. Sappo
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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sappo said:
I like rolling into the 10 ball and cutting it slightly to the right. the 10 ball will hit the dark ball {i cant tell what ball it is but its the second closest ball to the Liz's side rail} and both the 10 and the dark ball move closer to his pocket. meanwhile the cue ball sits on the stack between the 8 ball and the 2 ball. BI is in a world of trouble. Sappo


If you dont shoot the 7 ball youre playing too loose. And Billy is in trouble no matter what youi shhot.

And Biilt Stoued theese are players youre talking about. They cant stop the cueball. With side boards get real.

And even if the cueball goes forward. Billy is still in a trap. And I would like too take some good odds he makes a ball shooting the 7 ball.

And we went through the same thing a few weeks ago you dont go too the raiil unlees you can make a ball.

You lock him up against the stack. and freeze him to the two ball . And you cut off all his life line.

The only other shoot that I could see him shooting is the ten ball. But then you leave the cueball open. behind the balls or down the end rail.


The balls all favor the Lizard. And too say that Billy is out off the trap by following the cue ball forward is a little silly when all the balls are on Lizards side.

What odds do you make the game If the Lizard shoots the 7 or the 10 ball?
 

wincardona

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timdog24 said:
I like that shot too (think it's the 3 ball). Looks to be laying real good. If I overlooked that shot, then I'd probably cut that stripe sticking out behind the 3 towards my hole and try to bring the cue ball back up table to about where it is now.
Both shots are excellent shots if executed a certain way. I'll explain.

I believe it's the 3 ball that is positioned on top of the 10 ball. This shot should be hit as thickly as possible to get positive movement with the 7 ball and to increase your chances of freezing to the 2 ball. If this shot is struck in this fashion it is a very effective shot. The other shot would be to cut the 10 ball (ball under the 3ball)sending it close to your pocket. with this shot I don't like sending the cue ball to the top rail or near there for the reason that you may allow your opponent out of the trap by kicking behind the 1 ball. You must protect the 1 ball in every way when choosing this shot. Not only are you protecting the 1 ball but you are also protecting the 10 ball the ball you have just shot off of.This shot is more effective when you send the cue ball to the side rail near the side pocket. There's nothing good to look at from that ending position. I think for the majority of the players the latter shot would be the best choice. Easier to execute and you put your opponent in a position he doesn't figure to play out of.

The first shot off the 3 ball is a killer shot, but carries a higher degree of difficulty in terms of the hit and stroke.
That would be the shot more suitable for the better to best players.

A common mistake that mediocre players are guilty of, is that they try to emulate better players, by choosing a shot that they feel will be more effective but carry a higher degree of difficulty. This happens too much and is one of the reasons why these type of players don't win when their suppose to. That's the reason I emphasize the importance of setting up certain types of shots and developing a feel for them. You can improve your game in many ways, and following the advice of the best players is certainly one of the ways. But you still must be the one to execute the shots, that's why familiarizing yourself with shots that carry different angles and distance will enable you to choose different options when available.

It's all up to you, you have all the tools that are necessary to go to the next level, develop them and your off to a better place.

Billy I.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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He did shoot the 3 into the 10 ball. Personally, I like cutting the 10 ball towards the 1 and leaving the cueball near the side pocket. He let the cueball drift a little forward on this shot and gave Bill room to escape. He should've played all cueball on the shot but he didn't.

SS's Shot #2.jpg

Here's how he left it for Bill:

CapturedPicture_3.Jpeg
 

timdog24

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wincardona said:
Both shots are excellent shots if executed a certain way. I'll explain.

I believe it's the 3 ball that is positioned on top of the 10 ball. This shot should be hit as thickly as possible to get positive movement with the 7 ball and to increase your chances of freezing to the 2 ball. If this shot is struck in this fashion it is a very effective shot. The other shot would be to cut the 10 ball (ball under the 3ball)sending it close to your pocket. with this shot I don't like sending the cue ball to the top rail or near there for the reason that you may allow your opponent out of the trap by kicking behind the 1 ball. You must protect the 1 ball in every way when choosing this shot. Not only are you protecting the 1 ball but you are also protecting the 10 ball the ball you have just shot off of.This shot is more effective when you send the cue ball to the side rail near the side pocket. There's nothing good to look at from that ending position. I think for the majority of the players the latter shot would be the best choice. Easier to execute and you put your opponent in a position he doesn't figure to play out of.


Billy I.

After reading your post, I definitely agree. Cutting the stripe and bringing the cue ball near the side is stronger than going all the way uptown for the reasons you explained.

But, I still think that it's the 3 ball. If you look at the 2nd picture you will see a maroon ball to the left of the 8 ball. That's the 7 ball:)
 

wincardona

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Cowboy Dennis said:
He did shoot the 3 into the 10 ball. Personally, I like cutting the 10 ball towards the 1 and leaving the cueball near the side pocket. He let the cueball drift a little forward on this shot and gave Bill room to escape. He should've played all cueball on the shot but he didn't.

View attachment 2756

Here's how he left it for Bill:

View attachment 2757
I believe he tried to play all cueball on the shot, considering how good of a player he is and what the shot demanded. But from the distance he shot from it's not easy to hit the shot with a good stroke and with the accuracy needed to freeze on the 2 ball. That's the reason I emphasized the importance of playing within yourself, particularly when there are options. He's certainly capable of executing the shot, but the option with the 10 ball was a very good shot as well that carried a less degree of difficulty and a very favorable result.

Billy I.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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wincardona said:
I believe he tried to play all cueball on the shot, considering how good of a player he is and what the shot demanded. But from the distance he shot from it's not easy to hit the shot with a good stroke and with the accuracy needed to freeze on the 2 ball. That's the reason I emphasized the importance of playing within yourself, particularly when there are options. He's certainly capable of executing the shot, but the option with the 10 ball was a very good shot as well that carried a less degree of difficulty and a very favorable result.

Billy I.
Bill,

I wouldn't expect you to remember this but in this game, after Smith's shot, you fouled 3 consecutive innings at the table and Smith didn't notice:) . I'll bet you didn't do that very often (and get away with it):cool: .

Dennis
 

wincardona

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timdog24 said:
After reading your post, I definitely agree. Cutting the stripe and bringing the cue ball near the side is stronger than going all the way uptown for the reasons you explained.

But, I still think that it's the 3 ball. If you look at the 2nd picture you will see a maroon ball to the left of the 8 ball. That's the 7 ball:)

Thank you for agreeing with me, you're one of the more knowledgeable players here (not for agreeing with me) and I always value what you have to say.

The result of Steves shot allowing me to shoot off the ball near the foot rail was something that I envisioned would be possible before he shot. For that reason the other option that Steve had off the 10 ball may have been the better option. If you can envision the results of that shot, then you can make the decision what shot was better and why.

The ten ball shot was easy to envision, what you see is what you'll get. Shooting off the 3 ball is a very hard shot to envision the exact outcome, that clouded with the degree of difficulty in executing that shot makes me believe that the 10 ball was the better shot.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Bill,

I wouldn't expect you to remember this but in this game, after Smith's shot, you fouled 3 consecutive innings at the table and Smith didn't notice:) . I'll bet you didn't do that very often (and get away with it):cool: .

Dennis

Your right, but it's your opponent's responsibility to tell you your on two scratches. :D When you snooze you loose.;) And i'm certainly not going to call it on myself. Who would?;)

Billy I.
 

wincardona

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not broke don't need fixin.

not broke don't need fixin.

The position that Steve shot from was a strong position for him maybe to defend, and not so much for him to improve on. If you notice how the balls were positioned, and treated it as a position to defend opposed to improve on, then he's actually getting the full benefit of the value of the position. The cliche that says if it's not broke it don't need fixin would apply here. The proof was in the pudden.;)

Take a fair look at the envisioned position after shooting off the 10 ball and positioning the cue ball near the side pocket.:cool: Then offer your opinion.

Billy I.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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wincardona said:
Take a fair look at the envisioned position after shooting off the 10 ball and positioning the cue ball near the side pocket.:cool: Then offer your opinion.

Billy I.
That's the shot I liked. The 1 wouldn't move as far.

10 ball shot.jpg
 

wincardona

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Cowboy Dennis said:
That's the shot I liked. The 1 wouldn't move as far.

View attachment 2758
Thank you Dennis, this is the envisioned position and I really don't think that I nor anyone would want to be in. Plus you must recognize the degree of difficulty to attain this position. Not a difficult hit, with margin for error. That sounds like something I would like.

Billy I.
 
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