What's the best shot?

Cary

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Bertram, Texas
NH Steve said:
I was thinking something like newfosgate, except not trying to send the 3 ball very far -- I still want it on my side, only up toward the side pocket. Those who are concerned about the two balls on the opponent's side -- remember those are also in perfect one-rail bank locations for ME. This looks easy to control without any fancy stroke, why not?

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AakW4BaiU3CLPo2PXgE3QcYt4Rcxt3WLPo3WMvl7WSnM2kXgE3kLPX7kLHW3kBEk4kCjX@[/cuetable]

I had an almost identical situation come up last night and tried your shot. My opponent three railed the two and got out. I didn't know he had in in him.

We're both aged used-to-be's trying to make it back. We play every week or two. Buddy can't make a cut shot or a straight in shot but he's hell on multi-rail banks. And I'm a slow learner it seems.
 

fred bentivegna

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chicago illinois
A stiff

A stiff

NH Steve said:
I was thinking something like newfosgate, except not trying to send the 3 ball very far -- I still want it on my side, only up toward the side pocket. Those who are concerned about the two balls on the opponent's side -- remember those are also in perfect one-rail bank locations for ME. This looks easy to control without any fancy stroke, why not?

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AakW4BaiU3CLPo2PXgE3QcYt4Rcxt3WLPo3WMvl7WSnM2kXgE3kLPX7kLHW3kBEk4kCjX@[/CUETABLE]

You are going to leave a very makeable straight back. Using about 1/4 ball, or a little more, cut with right hand english, with the cue ball going over to the left side long rail, then over to the right side long rail and then heading down to the bottom rail while the object ball has a chance of going into or getting in front of his pocket.

I show this shot on my DVDs.

Beard
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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fred bentivegna said:
You are going to leave a very makeable straight back. Using about 1/4 ball, or a little more, cut with right hand english, with the cue ball going over to the left side long rail, then over to the right side long rail and then heading down to the bottom rail while the object ball has a chance of going into or getting in front of his pocket.

I show this shot on my DVDs.

Beard

I like Fredys shot on what he said because the 3 ball could even get in a position were the player can shoot the three ball. then he can loose his position having you on defense.

But this is a bad position too be in no matter what you do. And the thing to realy lean from this is to get your opponent in this position that is the important thing too learn.

Gettin out off this trap is hard and risky. Unless you get a good role. Because its hard to reay do anything good from her. And if you shoot the other side off the shot that freddy shot and the pther player banks the ball to his pocket you you have 3 balls too deal with

And the cue ball down the end rail. And tes you can leave a two railer on Freddys shot. But the player shooting the 2 railer will leave the cue ball in a differnt angle. Were you can shoot the 2 ball away two rails too youre side off the table.

But whatever we do from that position is not too much. So the realkey is what to do soo you dont get in that position. And whatever I shoot I will still be in trouble.

Because were the balls are. But Its a better shot shootin the 3 ball on the side Freedy said. I have too check my bloos presure agreeing with a bank pool player.

Im glad it wasnt a bank shot. Imagine picking another shot instead off shooting the bank. Id rather be handcufft to a boat going out too sea.
 

bstroud

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What about a deliberate scratch over on his side and leave the 2 ball combination.When you spot a ball you hide the 3 ball.

NOW the situation is reversed. If he takes the combo and misses he loses.
If he goes behind the 3 he leaves a bank. I think he might be in BIG trouble?

What do you think? Don't know why I didn't see this sooner?

Bill Stroud
 

senor

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Samiel, don't let anyone convince you that you shot a bad shot. The situation comes up a lot and there is nothing wrong with shooting it the way you did.

On another note, I can't imagine the best players in the game today would choose to go backward here. Cliff maybe, I've seen him take scratches in weird spots, but usually when he is giving up a lot of weight.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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bstroud said:
What about a deliberate scratch over on his side and leave the 2 ball combination.When you spot a ball you hide the 3 ball.

What do you think? Don't know why I didn't see this sooner?
Bill Stroud
Bill,

Maybe you missed post #10.


Artie Bodendorfer said:
Thats not bad. I would say most people would bank the one ball and hit the two ball with the cue gall. But thats close to a scratch too from the angle its showeing.

I would take a intentenale scratch and see what my opponent will do if he does the wrong thing I can win.

And I would role the cue ball too the other side off the table about a quater or a half a dimond from the top rail and a quater dimond off the side rail. And hope he shoots tge combination.

Because you are in a tough position I wouldnt want too be in this position and its my shoot.

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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bstroud said:
Dennis,

I guess I missed post 10.
Should have known.

Bill Stroud


I like what I see Dennies Rtroud is not looking Just too argue or through up just another shot. When he sees whay is the best choice. He will fess up too it.

And thats as honest as a person can be. And what else he does that I like the most he goes into detail and explaines Why he is doing it. And only a person that knowes what he is doing realy explaines his shoot.

And he makes it verry clear. And that is what needs too be done on every shot. Because after he explains it. And its the best shoot thier ie nothing else too talk about and you can go on too a new shot.

But unless thier is a conclousion on what shot everone is still in dought but the correct shot is astablished.

Without explaining it its hard too get a resulte. And it also rells me that he sees ahd understands the shot thats why he agrees. And once he sees it he has no problem changing it.

He has been away from pool I guess for a while it doesnt come back all at once. Even though you once learned all the shots. Our mind remembers it all in our memory but it still has too bring it all back.

And I have also rememberd now witch I forgot how much the breack is realy worth with a week player playing a strong player.

The breack is way worth more too the good player than the week player.I game like 18 to 4 the breack too the week player might be worth 1 ball.

To the good player its probable worth 4 balls. Thats how I see it. And there will be lots off oposition.

I just thought off it Billy Stroud do you no how too do probabilities in math. Buy how you talk I think you might just no how too do it. I hope. Because I have a problem for you to figure out.

Or you mite no someone who cand do probabilitys. It could come in play making Cues. But my qouistion is on something thier was a long debate and the answer was never givin.

And I dot like people learning and thinking that a probability person cant come up with the answer. I no thier is a answer. I dont no how too do the math or I would do it.

When I dont no a answer I go to some one who mite or maybe they no someone that can give the answer. I dont care for some saying thier is no answer.

When I no thier is. You mite be the wright man. Or howe too get the correct answer. And I no probabilities is the only way the can figure out the correct percentages.
 

MARK..HOU TX

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senor said:
Samiel, don't let anyone convince you that you shot a bad shot. The situation comes up a lot and there is nothing wrong with shooting it the way you did.

On another note, I can't imagine the best players in the game today would choose to go backward here. Cliff maybe, I've seen him take scratches in weird spots, but usually when he is giving up a lot of weight.
Senor ..I don't know if you heard that Bobby's place closed down for awhile ..why don't ya come over and slum with me and Rod one afternoon when your not swingin the clubs :) ..one thing that is difficult to grasp for me ..when to take a scratch and the ramifications ..kinda of like in chess when ya get to the point where your trading pieces ..sometimes a knight or bishop with a pawn to gain the high ground
 

senor

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MARK..HOU TX said:
Senor ..I don't know if you heard that Bobby's place closed down for awhile ..why don't ya come over and slum with me and Rod one afternoon when your not swingin the clubs :) ..one thing that is difficult to grasp for me ..when to take a scratch and the ramifications ..kinda of like in chess when ya get to the point where your trading pieces ..sometimes a knight or bishop with a pawn to gain the high ground

There's definitely no one pocket book that defines when you should take a scratch to try to improve your position. Usually your opponent gets really lucky and leaves you in a spot where there really is no other option.

Obviously, at the beginning of the game when the stack still exists, you should do whatever you can to get the cue ball stuck to the stack. Sometimes that means taking an intentional, but I was pretty good at finding a way to get whitey stuck behind the stack using a legal shot.

PS I hadn't heard about Bobby's and I will drop by if I am around :)
 

timdog24

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fred bentivegna said:
...But I have to go with Artie's intentional scratch. By choosing that option you switch the pressure to the other player. You go from you having to execute a difficult shot perfectly to keep from losing the game, to now putting your oppo is a similar fix. If he makes the long combination he can win, but if he mis- executes, he loses. Options other than the combination are not very good either. I look at those situations like, "Let 'em make it and win. God bless him."

I have tried to bank that 1 ball from that distance many times, and have hit it too thin and went right into the pocket many, many times.

Personally, I love taking intentional scratches. I call it, "Feeding the dog in you, but living to pet him another day."

Beard

If you take the intentional, can't your opponent over-cut bank the spotted ball to his side, with inside english, and send the cue ball up table? I can't tell for sure if I can avoid running into the 1,2 without actually being at the table though, but I feel like I can. And if you can, then the intentional is no good here. And if the shot I described isn't available, then all I would do is take an intentional right back, just making sure you can't see the 3 ball. I'm a big fan of the intentional scratch, not here though.

I like Dudley's shot here.

What do you do if your opponent back scratches right back at you? What ever you do, in my opinion, you had a much better shot the 1st time around.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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timdog24 said:
If you take the intentional, can't your opponent over-cut bank the spotted ball to his side, with inside english, and send the cue ball up table? I can't tell for sure if I can avoid running into the 1,2 without actually being at the table though, but I feel like I can. And if you can, then the intentional is no good here. And if the shot I described isn't available, then all I would do is take an intentional right back, just making sure you can't see the 3 ball. I'm a big fan of the intentional scratch, not here though.

I like Dudley's shot here.

What do you do if your opponent back scratches right back at you? What ever you do, in my opinion, you had a much better shot the 1st time around.


Theese guys are geting tougher Freddy If he scratches back. Im going to do the same thing. And if he scratches back.

Well I have to take a chance. And shoot the two ball into the one ball and stop wright thier so if he banks the 3 ball he will get a kiss.

And if the one and the two role the way I want them too I will be ok The two should go by my side rail by the 2 dimond and the one should go behind the 4 balls on the spot thats if I hit it right,

But I dont like it but thats all I have.If I make the one ball thats ok too. Because the two ball shoud go over to my side. And I try too shoot the two ball into the one ball rail first.

And if I hit it perfect for him. THe one will go in his pocket and then he will have the two ball right in front off his pocket and I will loose the game.
 

timdog24

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Theese guys are geting tougher Freddy If he scratches back. Im going to do the same thing. And if he scratches back.

Well I have to take a chance. And shoot the two ball into the one ball and stop wright thier so if he banks the 3 ball he will get a kiss.

And if the one and the two role the way I want them too I will be ok The two should go by my side rail by the 2 dimond and the one should go behind the 4 balls on the spot thats if I hit it right,

But I dont like it but thats all I have.If I make the one ball thats ok too. Because the two ball shoud go over to my side. And I try too shoot the two ball into the one ball rail first.

And if I hit it perfect for him. THe one will go in his pocket and then he will have the two ball right in front off his pocket and I will loose the game.


Artie, do you really like shooting dead frozen off the back rail while on 2 fouls, trying to remove 2 balls from your opponent's side and make sure you leave the double kiss on the 3 ball - over just simply banking the 3 up table and repositioning the cue ball under the 1 from the beginning, like Dudley described?
 

newfosgatesucks

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Using top left, cutting straight into the rail, left throws ball long and top causes cueball to change direction after the hit, slowing it down. Analyze what he can do from here! He has to move or MUST MAKE a two-railer or he gives you a shot.


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AacX4BaaV3CKqm2PXPE3WKqm3WLxj3WPGD2kXPE3kKaU3kJDb3kCSk@[/CUETABLE]
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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fred bentivegna said:
You are going to leave a very makeable straight back. Using about 1/4 ball, or a little more, cut with right hand english, with the cue ball going over to the left side long rail, then over to the right side long rail and then heading down to the bottom rail while the object ball has a chance of going into or getting in front of his pocket.

I show this shot on my DVDs.

Beard


Now that we played the game out to tht breacing point. I think I would rather have shot freddys shot. I dint figure on my opponent taking 2 scratches back.

THats why you have too no your opponent. But we wont no what woul happen tell I shoot the combination. But its no good even if I get oput off it.

Because I traped myself figuring he would shoot or do somrthing different. But I didnt look real good after my first scratch I would definly have to do something different then just take a scratch back. But I didnt reay look I will tommarow.
 

bstroud

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I expected that my opponent would scratch back because it is a terrible position but I have never played the 3 foul rule in one pocket.

I was hoping he would take one or more scratches before I had to shoot again.

I guess one pocket has become more of a tournament game than a gambling game. Go figure.

Bill Stroud
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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bstroud said:
I expected that my opponent would scratch back because it is a terrible position but I have never played the 3 foul rule in one pocket.

I was hoping he would take one or more scratches before I had to shoot again.

I guess one pocket has become more of a tournament game than a gambling game. Go figure.

Bill Stroud


You have said a mouth full tournements have changed the rules. And they have made the rules not only worse.

THey are stupit and horrable. And everyone thinks its ok. Because they say we all have too play by the same rules.

Yes but that still doesnt change that they are bad rules.

And in one pocket that rule was made by gamblers THe 3 scratch foul rule. So you couldnt take a million fouls in a row and needer player will shoot.

And its not fair if you have someone in a trap. And the cant get out and you are playing a race to 3 and you are anead 2 too nothing.

And you will have too be the person that shoots first. Because you are up 2 games to nothing. Why would you want to keep scratching and keep scratching.

When you have a 2 too nothing lead in games. And put the session in jepordy off not finishing because both players keep scratching. And too be fair too the player that has the lead.

They only way you can do that is with a fair rule. I always played that way with Bugs and everyone I played.

And when I was Hustling pool. I would never play anyone a game for fun. I would rather practice by myself and learn.

But the tournements have destroid the rules. Thats partley because Of the sponsers TV. And too speed up the game.

People have too understand people running tournemenys are selling something. They dont care who wins the tournement.They are thier too make money.

If it were not for the money they would not be thier. They dont care who wins the tournement or what the rules are.

They do whatever they have too too make money. No matter what rule they have too make too get it done.

And the quickest way to get the tournement over with.

I need for everyone to see this and understand why the rules were made for tournemets not for gambling or the good off the game.

But to change any rule that will help them too do what they have too too make the tournement succesfull..

They are not made for the good off the game. But the good for themselves. And the tournements.

And the rules were not made better too have a better rule in the game.. But the were made for the tournements Goog or bad.

THe rules were made because the made them and the were not legele rules or too better the game.

They were made for the wrong reason. To make tournements succesfull. And Thier were never rules nade for gambling or Hanndy cap games.

THose rules should be way different. But they use the tournement rules for handycap rules the same for both games.

And I see it very clear now that the rules are wrong for tounements and gambling the same.

But thats all proplr have too go by unless they make thier own rules.

So the bottom line is people are not playing by the best or correct rules. But they are playing by the rules too help the tournement to be succesfull. And Thier you have it.

MR Billy Sroud Welcome back to the game you new and what it is tooday.

Good by joe me oh my oh. Sonoff a gun were having fun me oh my oh. I dont remember all the words too they song. But thats for you Billy Stroud.

THe times have past us by. WE are at the finish line. THe new generation has taken over. THe meek shall inherite the earth. What about the new generayion.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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newfosgatesucks said:
Using top left, cutting straight into the rail, left throws ball long and top causes cueball to change direction after the hit, slowing it down. Analyze what he can do from here! He has to move or MUST MAKE a two-railer or he gives you a shot.


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AacX4BaaV3CKqm2PXPE3WKqm3WLxj3WPGD2kXPE3kKaU3kJDb3kCSk@[/CUETABLE]
NFS,

Surely you jest:) . Even if you leave the rock on the end-rail you would be leaving me my favorite, all-time one-pocket bank shot, this two-railer. Since you got lucky and left me where it probably doesn't go:p , I'd try to do this and I'd probably be very close to the leave you see here.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AacX4BaaV3CKqm2PXPE3WKqm3WLxj3WPGD2kXPE3kKaU3kJDb3kCSk@4AacX4BaaV3CPGD3PCSk@4AacX4BaaV3CPGD3PCSk3WPGD2WaRH2WTxi4WAnh4WDHU3kCSk3kOIT3kaRg1kawe1kBsj@4AacX4BaaV4CDHU1PBsj@[/CUETABLE]
 

bstroud

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Artie,

You're right. Tournaments ruined 9 ball.
What the hell is one foul 9 ball.
If you really want a new rule it should be if you miss a shot it is ball in hand.
That stops all the luck.

I can't stand ball in hand 9 ball. You run a few racks on your opponent, get him a little weak and next thing you know he gets ball in hand and gets his courage back.

Now they want to ruin one pocket?
I used to take as many intentional fouls as I thought was necessary to win the game. Kind of like playing Chicken with cars.
How far will YOU go to win?

Bill Stroud
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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bstroud said:
Artie,

You're right. Tournaments ruined 9 ball.
What the hell is one foul 9 ball.
If you really want a new rule it should be if you miss a shot it is ball in hand.
That stops all the luck.

I can't stand ball in hand 9 ball. You run a few racks on your opponent, get him a little weak and next thing you know he gets ball in hand and gets his courage back.

Now they want to ruin one pocket?
I used to take as many intentional fouls as I thought was necessary to win the game. Kind of like playing Chicken with cars.
How far will YOU go to win?

Bill Stroud

THe did the same thing in eight ball cue ball in hand. You breack up your problem balls and you run out. Without cue ball in hand.They couldnt do that and make it that simple.

And in nine ball you cannot push out. If you are hooked.

You miss the ball gues what cue ball in hand. Its horrable. And Im not a nine ball fan .

But I no what is a good rule and whats wright, I think they should realy get dumb.

And if a player fouls you get cue ball in hand on every shot. Then they can realy get stupit.

Stupit people make stupied rules. Just like dumb people make bumb shots.


Its not about the game but about how much theycan make. THey care less about the game. And if it was not for thr money. They would not be doing it at all.

And the Casinos are her for the same reason. Too take Suckers and Squares money. I no because thats why I hustled for the money.

At least I can fess up too it. They wont ask them see what they say. And you will see I am Wright. Isnt that why everyone is working for the money too earn a living.
 
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